Trouble in Missouri

[PettigsTaxidermy]

My question to you all is how many taxidermist jumped right into full time? Not many, we all started somewhere. I know there are several in my area, including myself. I do have a store front instead of doing it from home, but thats where I started out. The majority of people who jump into this usually dont last over one or two years and their burnt out or have given themselfs a bad name and are no longer getting much work. I have got several remounts from people who werent happy with their reslults from other taxidermist. My part timing has lasted almost 10 years now so there are some out there that are going to stay. If this guys been established in business long time, and it sounds like he has, and he's not getting the business that he has in the past, maybe hes burnt too many bridges or he needs to step up his quality. Complaining about the part timer not going to help. It cost 30 bucks to get a permit and whatever you county charges you to run a business. As long as permits are  this cheap your going to have a lot of people try it.  Not much different than owning a gas station, pretty hard to keep your nieghbor from opening one to.  Way of life.  I think if he continues this fight hes going to do more harm to himself than anyone else.  I have 4 Taxidermist within 3 miles of me and Im still in business.

[Cole]

It sounds to me like it's a county issue. When opening a business out of the home, even a part time business, it's up to the individual to make sure they are doing everything legal. Just having a taxidermy license doesn't mean you're good to go in some counties. I'm not saying this guy is in the right, quite the contrary. Guys like him need to worry about themselves and their businesses, and don't concern themselves with what others do. I've got cut throat part-timers all around me. Some of these are charging as low as 195.00 for a deer head. I don't worry about it. I can only control my business, so that's the only concern I have. Perhaps there is someone on here from one of those two counties that can help inform us of their laws?

[Roger V]

I know  Rick Starotski is one who had the blown on him.  He was talking about it at the state show. He is in St charles.

[James Parrish]

I will say again, if you are full-time and you let part-timers take business from you, it is your own fault.  I don't know this guy from Adam, but I can tell you that if the accusation is true that he is trying to run folks out of business, he is NOT a professional.  A professional would be involved in his state association (even if he does not compete) and he would try to help folks to better the industry.  There are thousands of professionals on this forum and in every state association. 

Because I cannot afford another lawyer bill right now, I will keep the full details to myself, but I had a similar situation last year.  A competitor had me and several others charged with a crime (magistrates will issue charges just to get trouble makers out of their hair).  The long and short is that this person was doing poor work and screwing people.  The lawyer actually laughed when we met with him.  He got the DA to dismiss the case without us even having to go to court.  This person is now out of business, but not because I did it to him.  Unlike this person, I actually do whatever I can to help others as often as I can because I want to see others succeed.  Even if the folks I help take some clients away from me, my business still grows because I do good quality work and treat folks well. 

I really hope you folks in MO fight this and I hope you succeed.  What we do not need is this type mentality in our industry.  The closed shop mentality died a long time ago.

[RDA]

Micheal P,   fyi  ALL the regular shops around me are down some are dead,  and thats due to the pricing.  sorry if you disagree,  but you do not know the dynamics of this area, nor do you know the influx of people into it that now comprise the brunt of taxidermy business..Ive discussed this at length with alot of the regular shops around me  all with this same conclusion...Im living here  YOU are not..So Im defintly NOT lying to myself about anything...

  Do the math,,,,new shops around have cut the price by 300 or better for a deer head.  the average for good known shops is 750,  while the latest wave of new dermists are charging 450...  The spread USED to be 600 to 750 average,  everyone took in the usual.   the new spread simply doesnt work that way.   THe regular shops get price check calls but that is it.  New customers are almost unheard of right now and only repeats are showing in the reguar shhops..  Ive been doing the research  those are the facts..

[michael p.]

That post was not directed at you Ron and I understand what you're saying.......but as I've also said, if it's that bad out there I'd have to move

[psycho]

Fellas I'm a part timer but I charge $50 to $100 and even $150 more than the full time shops on just a deer head.  I get price checked weekly.  The other day a guy called about a fish, I told him $16 an inch and he informed me so and so down the street was charging $12.  Thats a full time shop, I can't help them they have to help themselves. 

Just remember, not all part timers are the same and neither are all full timers. 

A hack and a cut throat can be part time or full time.  There are some of us part timers that are competent and give a crap about the industry. 

Copper thanks for the confirmation.  I just wanted to be sure because I knew the guys that live in MO would be checking it out and I wanted to make sure the name was correct.  I only live 45 minutes from St. Louis and St. Charles. 

I know  Rick Starotski is one who had the blown on him.  He was talking about it at the state show. He is in St charles.

Roger did I meet Rick do you know?  Hell he could have been standing by me and might not just be able to put a name and face together?  I wish Rick would have said something at the business meeting when Doug asked anyone if they had any old or new business they wanted to discuss.  That would have been a great discussion.  LOL           

[GBRUCH]

I agree Dan a competant taxidermist or a lowballer is just that regardless of hours worked. 

[antlerman]

Dan, you probably did. He is my height, ie taller than you. Blonde hair that is turning gray. Goatee and mustache. And always wears a ballcap. As a rule competes with small mammals. Was probably hanging with Bob Schnettogocke. Hell, he might have even went bowling with you.

[psycho]

Contact Craig Lewis with the UTA  maybe he can help you or lead you in the right direction

Now that I think of it he probably was the one that went bowling with us.  He never mentioned this crap around us though.  Now I wish he would have. 

[Vicki Chritton-Myers]

Sounds to me like this guy and his business are floundering around in death throes. That's why you have to be very, very careful around a drowning person. They'll grab onto anything they think will save them. If it's you, they will drown YOUR >butt< in an attempt to save their own. I'm in Missouri and I, like many others, started out working from the home. But I did build a studio on the property prior to actually opening for business. Not because of any laws, just necessity. But I also live in the boonies of the boonies of MO. Those of you who live in town fall under much stricter guidelines.

My advice is to stay as far away from the drowning man and protect yourself by whatever means possible.

[Suprdave]

This is America, everyone has a right to do business, as long as they know their county, city regs.
It ticks me off when someone, or minority tries to do something against the majority,  Happens all over the country all the time.
I have been full time for 7 years, taxidermy for almost 20. I have cheap part timers all around me, it makes me pay attention to quality and improve my quality.  It also does not keep me from raising prices as needed.
I have gotten a few of this guys customers, I am about an hour and half from him,  some live by him and drive all way here.
He should look at his own business and worry less about others.

[James Parrish]

Micheal P,   fyi  ALL the regular shops around me are down some are dead,  and thats due to the pricing.  sorry if you disagree,  but you do not know the dynamics of this area, nor do you know the influx of people into it that now comprise the brunt of taxidermy business..Ive discussed this at length with alot of the regular shops around me  all with this same conclusion...Im living here  YOU are not..So Im defintly NOT lying to myself about anything...

  Do the math,,,,new shops around have cut the price by 300 or better for a deer head.  the average for good known shops is 750,  while the latest wave of new dermists are charging 450...  The spread USED to be 600 to 750 average,  everyone took in the usual.   the new spread simply doesnt work that way.   THe regular shops get price check calls but that is it.  New customers are almost unheard of right now and only repeats are showing in the reguar shhops..  Ive been doing the research  those are the facts..

Ron,

Could it be deflation in action?  Deflation happens when the economy hits a severe recession.  It is happening BIG time in the building industry right now.  Several years ago, you had to wait weeks or months to get an electrician, plumber, or mason to work for you (new construction/renovation, not repair work).  They could basically command their own price because the housing market was booming and there was way more than enough work to go around.  Now, you can call several tradesmen and they will try to undercut each other and they will show up to start work tomorrow.  

You know your area better than I do, but it could be a case of the high prices you guys have been charging adjusting themselves.  $450 is on the high end for a deer head around Raleigh....I charge $495 going to $525 this fall.  Out in the more rural areas $350-400 is the higher end, with some folks as low as $250-265.  I don't know many areas in the country where the average for a deer head runs $600-750.  I'm not an expert on taxidermy pricing, but $500 is GOOD money, in my eyes, for a deer head.  I know that might seem like a low ball price when you're used to getting $750.  I use the most expensive forms, expensive eyes, pay for prep and tanning, etc. and don't do enough volume to get much in the way of supplier discounts.  I figure I have around $200 in one before labor (that includes utilities and shop rent/payment).  I would guess the average is 6 hrs total per head (especially if you pay for prep and tanning)...which works out to $50 per hour for labor.  You can't get rich at that price, but you can make a good living.  Heck, I have a bachelors in chemistry and make less than $25 per hour at my full time job.  I guess what I'm saying is, be thankful the guys that are undercutting some of you aren't charging $300 for a head.  Even so, at those prices, they will eventually burn themselves out and start getting a bad reputation.  

[Bill Yox]

OK I have two comments, one quick one as a moderator, the second one as a taxidermist...

First, many of you must have seen that I edited your posts. I know this part timer discrimination topic made you all mad when posting, but we still need to follow the rules about cursing and thinly veiled curse words and their abbreviations in the forums. Please dont tell me how stupid it is. When we talk we curse, I know. But this is the forums, plain and simple. Try to keep that in mind in the future so I dont butcher your otherwise well written posts. 

As for this topic, heres a thought. In the interim, how about if ALL part timers follow the word of the law to its FULLEST extent? Yes, ALL PART TIMERS, ALL HOME TAXIDERMISTS, EVERYONE NOT IN A COMMERCIAL AREA OR STORE FRONT should not charge. Yes, that means DO NOT CHARGE FOR TAXIDERMY, DO THE WORK FOR FREE. Now how long do you think Paul or anyone else not happy with this would last? If they think you good folks are lowballing, wow, free would really be bad, huh? Hahahaha. See, people just do not think.

I suggest ALL of you hit your local town hall in force and make someone accountable for this law, and find out how to comply and conform in a manner that benefits all. Lets keep this post going so we all learn from it, cuz this could be anywhere, not just Missouri.

And...dont forget to watch the cursing, thanks guys!

[Bill Yox]

Seems that the system sometimes does work out well. I was just told that the official from that area contacted the NTA, who in turn got that official in touch with John Janelli. John assured him that we dont use the dangerous chelicals cited, and even showed the official involved a WASCO catalog as a way of introducing him to what we do. John then got the ball rolling. Steve Wolk then spoke to this same official, as he covers the town that Steve is from as well. They now have an understanding as to what we do, and that the complaint was most likely NOT as a safety issue, and Ill leave it at that. The official, after speaking at length to Steve and John, has decided to take no further action. I would say that anyone who still has an issue contact Steve Wolk about this to get it resolved for your own situations. Thank Steve as well. In this day where we have been very critical of the NTA, this is one of those times where we should be just as forward with our thanks. I was just made aware of this within the hour, on a Sunday. Please lets not start another NTA bash, but give credit where its due as professionals. Thanks JJ and Steve !