Quick help please ASAP!!

[Shannon Tobey]

I am tanning a deer cape with Lutan F. I took it out of the pickle at about 3:30 and out it into the tan without neutralizing it bc I am going to do that while its in the tan. The Ph to begin with was between 4 and 5 like it should be. Now it is at 5...ok...so my question is, how is it in this ok Ph range if I haven't added any baking soda or anything or neutralized it? And if it continues to rise, do I then add the baking soda, will that lower it back to normal?  Thank you

[George Roof]

Shannon I'm hoping that what you've written is simply illegible. If not. I'd suggest you stick to your day job. Why would you do something like that?

[muscle20]

   Shannon Tobey   It sounds like you do not have any idea ? For one thing the pH in the pickle should be 2.0 or lower, if you are basifying in the tanning bath, bring the pH up to 3.8 - 4.0 in the tanning float then finish it up to 5.0 - 5.5 , adding acid will lower the pH making it more acidic, adding baking soda will raise the pH making it less acidic, It sounds like you let the pH rise too high in your pickle which is not a good thing, you have got to keep your pickle at a pH of 2.0 or lower, if the pH is left unchecked at 3.0 pH the critical point or higher for an extended time period in the pickle, chances are that hair slip will occur.
                                       
                                                                                                               
                           
 
             

[Shannon Tobey]

   Shannon Tobey   It sounds like you do not have any idea ? For one thing the pH in the pickle should be 2.0 or lower, if you are basifying in the tanning bath, bring the pH up to 3.8 - 4.0 in the tanning float then finish it up to 5.0 - 5.5 , adding acid will lower the pH making it more acidic, adding baking soda will raise the pH making it less acidic, It sounds like you let the pH rise too high in your pickle which is not a good thing, you have got to keep your pickle at a pH of 2.0 or lower, if the pH is left unchecked at 3.0 pH the critical point or higher for an extended time period in the pickle, chances are that hair slip will occur.
                                       
My pickle was never left unchecked, I kept it at 1- 2 at all times, def. not any higher I assure you.  When I tested my tanning float before I put the cape in, it read about 4 and after I added the cape it was as I stated at 4-5...that is why I am confused. I have done a lot of research about tanning in preperation for this. So I am def. not in the "you have no idea" category. Yes this is my first time, I'm sorry if I'm not perfect, thought I could ask for a little help.                                                                                                               
                           
 
             

Shannon I'm hoping that what you've written is simply illegible. If not. I'd suggest you stick to your day job. Why would you do something like that?

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Why would I do something like that? Not neutralize it befire the tan? I have learned through this forum that you dont have to

[George Roof]

Well I don't know where you "learned it through the forum". Not THIS forum you didn't. I'm sure Lutan F came with some directions. I suspect your about to have deer hide soup and your best bet is to throw it away now. Then go to the Tutorial section and read Amy's great tutorial on how to properly tan a hide.

[oldshaver]

Shannon, sounds to me like you use too much water to tan. As long as the salt is correct, thats still ok.

Add some of the pickle to your tanning bath, and bring it down to around 3-3.5. Stir often. Leave in for 6 hrs, then go ahead and neutralise slowly with soda, up to the the required pH.

Amy's tutorial ONLY works for EZ 100. A phenolic tan. A phenolic tan requires PRE-NEUTRALISATION, because it is seeking collegen on the mid-to high end of the pH scale, to fix to.

Lutan, is a mineral tan, that is seeking acidic collegen, there for, you DO NOT neutralise before the tan. That is why you neutralise lutan, AFTER the tan.

[ryanolson72]

but Tru Bond you neutralise before the tan, correct?  and raise the ph by adding soda at the end of the tan? 

[Shannon Tobey]

Well I don't know where you "learned it through the forum". Not THIS forum you didn't. I'm sure Lutan F came with some directions. I suspect your about to have deer hide soup and your best bet is to throw it away now. Then go to the Tutorial section and read Amy's great tutorial on how to properly tan a hide.

Yes it was this very forum, I have read Amy's tutorial. After that, I read more tutorials and learned you can go straight from the pickle to the tanning float without neutralization because the tanning float can be basifyed using the baking soda. Even Muscle20, just above this said it again.

"The tan, LUTAN, is attracted to an acidic skin. When you make a seperate tanning bath, with Lutan, you use water, salt, and the Lutan, at I think, 1oz per lb of skin. After you mix the tanning bath, with Lutan in it, the Lutan will lower the pH to around 3.5 or so. You want the pH of the skin to be tanned, LOWER THAN  SURROUNDING BATH! Thats why you should go straight from a pickle, to the tanning bath.
"
This is an excerpt from just ONE of the threads where I learned it is ok to do this...it is from OldShaver and is in the thread of Lutan F PH...I can post the entire thread if you still don't believe me

[Shannon Tobey]

Shannon, sounds to me like you use too much water to tan. As long as the salt is correct, thats still ok.

Add some of the pickle to your tanning bath, and bring it down to around 3-3.5. Stir often. Leave in for 6 hrs, then go ahead and neutralise slowly with soda, up to the the required pH.

Amy's tutorial ONLY works for EZ 100. A phenolic tan. A phenolic tan requires PRE-NEUTRALISATION, because it is seeking collegen on the mid-to high end of the pH scale, to fix to.

Lutan, is a mineral tan, that is seeking acidic collegen, there for, you DO NOT neutralise before the tan. That is why you neutralise lutan, AFTER the tan.

Thank you so much!

[Shannon Tobey]

I also wanted to ask about something I was reading last night about lutan f...I don't remember what thread it was posted on...it actually might have been that lutan f ph thread I was talking about before...but someone was talking about leaving the hides in longer than what the directions say to. Can that happen or is it bad? The directions say to leave fox size animal in for 12-14 hrs. but he leaves them in for 24- 48 hrs....is this right? My deer had been in the tan for about 17hrs ( directions say 16-18), so I took it out and hung it up to drain a bit, can I put it back in, lowering the ph and slowly raising it again? That seems like a bad idea but I know things are not always as they seem. Thank you

[oldshaver]

but Tru Bond you neutralise before the tan, correct?  and raise the ph by adding soda at the end of the tan? 

Perma-Tan 2000 is a combination tan, that utilizes tans similar to Lutan, and EZ 100.

Instructions are similar to Lutan. The Lutan type tan fixes while the skin is acidic, then the second tan fixes as the pH rises.(you add soda)

[oldshaver]

I also wanted to ask about something I was reading last night about lutan f...I don't remember what thread it was posted on...it actually might have been that lutan f ph thread I was talking about before...but someone was talking about leaving the hides in longer than what the directions say to. Can that happen or is it bad? The directions say to leave fox size animal in for 12-14 hrs. but he leaves them in for 24- 48 hrs....is this right? My deer had been in the tan for about 17hrs ( directions say 16-18), so I took it out and hung it up to drain a bit, can I put it back in, lowering the ph and slowly raising it again? That seems like a bad idea but I know things are not always as they seem. Thank you
[/quote

Wont hurt. Only so much tan per pound of skin. All the tan has been pulled from the water within 6-8 hrs. Cant over-tan pre-measured by weight.

[Shannon Tobey]

I also wanted to ask about something I was reading last night about lutan f...I don't remember what thread it was posted on...it actually might have been that lutan f ph thread I was talking about before...but someone was talking about leaving the hides in longer than what the directions say to. Can that happen or is it bad? The directions say to leave fox size animal in for 12-14 hrs. but he leaves them in for 24- 48 hrs....is this right? My deer had been in the tan for about 17hrs ( directions say 16-18), so I took it out and hung it up to drain a bit, can I put it back in, lowering the ph and slowly raising it again? That seems like a bad idea but I know things are not always as they seem. Thank you
[/quote

Wont hurt. Only so much tan per pound of skin. All the tan has been pulled from the water within 6-8 hrs. Cant over-tan pre-measured by weight.

Thank you for being so helpful! I really appreciate it!

[ryanolson72]

thanks Aubrey!!  I go by directions as I recieved, glad Im doing things right!!

[muscle20]

   Shannon Tobey   By your first post it was not very illegible, that is why I stated that it sounded like you had know idea, as I could only guess, that is the way you wrote it, your replies were much easier to understand clearer, of which I think your question could of been the same, including what you have done in your process as in your replies.