First two white crappie

[west1542]

Here are a few pics of the first crappies I attempted.  These are only my 2nd and 3rd fish mounts.  I only lost a scale or two which was what I was worried about the most.  I tried two different techniques for scale loss that I read on here the salt trick( salting overnight), and the denatured alcohol soak with alot of borax on both they both seemed to work well and about the same.  Fixed the rear fin using tissue paper but the customer wanted the bottom fish left the same.  I used pealex powders for the 2nd and 3rd time which I love, it just seems it would be hard to get the colors and transitions you can get with those powders, love em.  I know the mouth may be open to much on the one fish which is why I didn't open the other up.  Learning as I go.  Also I didn't get as smooth of a transition from mannikin to head on the bottom as I wanted.  And I might have sprayed the fins in the back too dark I used the spray then remove spots with brush and laquer thinner technique.  I did alot of referance looking for paint and tried to match the pics I found the closest, I hope I am going in the right direction at least.  I still have the fish here so if you see something I can fix let me know.  Thanks.....I also tried the rustoleum special laquer and had no problems.

[west1542]

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[west1542]

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[FishArt]

Let me ask you this, did your customer know that these were only your second and third mounts and you were "learning as you go"?

Nothing personal, but FAR too many jump into this business taking on customers fish WAY sooner than they're qualified to do. I waited two+ years honing my skills before I even THOUGHT about taking on a customers trophy. And looking back now I probably should waited ANOTHER year or two - lol!

You ask if there's something that we see that you can fix? My suggestion would be to look at a couple of photos of Crappies and you tell ME what should have been done differently...

[west1542]

Yes they knew it was my second and third and as far as our local 30 mile radius of fish taxidermist they still shouldn't be taking fish mounts.  I don't lie to people that I mount for they understand the experience I have and THEY chose whether I mount for them or not I don't steal their fish.  I don't guess I see any purpose of posting further pics on here if these are the responses I get.  Maybe it should have been in the beginners section....I've already listed what I saw wrong maybe you missed that part?

[FishArt]

Yes they knew it was my second and third and as far as our local 30 mile radius of fish taxidermist they still shouldn't be taking fish mounts.  I don't lie to people that I mount for they understand the experience I have and THEY chose whether I mount for them or not I don't steal their fish.  I don't guess I see any purpose of posting further pics on here if these are the responses I get.  Maybe it should have been in the beginners section....I've already listed what I saw wrong maybe you missed that part?

Yes, I saw what you posted, but I was trying to get you to look even CLOSER. Good reference is critical. Perhaps pulling out some photos and comparing them to your mounts might help see some more issues? What do you see in photos of live crappies that you do or don't see in your mounts? It may sound SILLY to you because I haven't given you the answer(s) (Yet). But, quite honestly IF I force YOU to use your own eyes to try and find things you're going to learn so much more from doing so. I'll give you a couple of "freebies" to get you started. Hint: Your base colors aren't that bad. In fact look beyond the paint job. All beginners want to get to the painting part too soon. When they'd be aHEAD of the ballgame if they took more time focusing on the anatomy and positioning of things. Another hint: Most of your issues are repeat issues that every beginner has. Lastly, be more careful when cleaning out the meat. By the brown gunky looking stuff around the base of the pec fins and in the head area it looks like some meat was left in. Stick your nose in the mouth and tell me if it smells?  Now, go to work and tell me what YOU see. You need to WORK a little for the answers - lol!

[CrabCrazy]

Dude, your paints pretty decent...but really...check out the shape of a crappie....don't know what forms you used...but the body shape is off....in that closeup front on view, block out the body with your hand, the head doesn't look like a crappie head...its too fat...a crappie is a sleek flat shape fish...what Marty said is right

[west1542]

How do I make the head more flat then?  I used a Matt thompson form, these were very fat fish here's a front shot of a crappie I found

[CrabCrazy]

dude, theres are kinds of pictures on here of crappies.....i'm not saying pancake flat on the head....really check out the shape of the fish you mounted with another crappie....i'm not putting you down....reference is the key in any form of taxidermy...try carving your own forms....the ones you buy hardly ever fit...so you need to alter them....much easier to carve your own...keep at it, your doing fine

[west1542]

Ok I understand I wasn't trying to be smart.  That's why I posted it in the first place , to get help.  Maybe I'll try again sometime this spring when I catch a few of my own.  I'm sure we all sucked when we first started. LoL 

[Clew]

Reference  Reference  Reference  Reference

The first thing you need to look at is the natural placement of the head fins and skin and mouth when mounting
Take lots of measurements

The paint on the fins looked ok for your first couple

Keep at it, and use reference photos your on the right track
Yes we all did crappy mounts starting out,

[franchi612]

I don't like MT forms. I can never get them to fit. Was one of your ref pix a person holding the fish, because that is how you did the top mount, with the mouth hyperextended down like when someone holds it. White crappies tend to slope down quite a bit from the dorsal, and then slope up quite a bit from the belly. Do you wire your head in place when you mount? That will keep it from falling down as badly as these are. Slant the wires up from the bottom of the mouth, and down from the top. That will help your head follow the real shape of the fish. I think if you were to use a different form or better yet carve a form, you will see a big improvement too. I've always thought white crappies were a weird shaped fish lol. They are different from blacks, but I think the forms are the same. Save some of your own fish and try the half cast method also. Some very talented people on here use it for all their pannies. I never got the hang of it myself. You can fix an awful lot with epoxy as well. rebuild all of those areas under the throatlatch, and fix your topline. Fill in the head, and sculpt your lips. Honestly you can go as far as cutting off the head after it's dry and reset it if it falls down like that, but you will need some good sculpting skills.

[FishArt]

I'm sure we all sucked when we first started. LoL 

Yes, we all have been there.

Another thing you can do too - and I usually don't recommend this. But, take a peek at some of the mounts done by some of the better fish taxidermists. DougP does a beautiful Crappie and you can get an idea of what kinds of things he does anatomically speaking that people look for in a quality mount. I'm trying to think of some others - RandyB has some nice crappie reps - replicas will give you an idea too. Pescado, Cole and I'm sure a few others I'm forgetting - Manny.... (Help me out here folks - mental farting. I know some other masters, but many do pretty much coldwater). Don't reference off of just anybody though - lol! Can't go wrong with pics of real fish, but sometimes it's nice to see how other quality fish taxidermists put together a nice mount....

[Clew]

I did this years ago, and what I mounted was someone elses representation of what god created
I never could quite nail down a great mount, until I mounted by the real life photos and specimens
It made me think out of the box on how to recreate what is natural
All the really good guys on here have developed their own little tricks by doing this
Nothing wrong at looking at how other folks do things or mount, all I am saying is be creative and don't be afraid to try new things
This is how Paul Marty Jimmy Josh , my gosh many got where they are
Heck I'm 54 and I can still learn from people on here and looking at my references