Again...with the Krowtann

[JimE]

First attempt at using the stuff.  My project is a small squirrel.  Mixed up 1/4 of the listed ingredients for a deer hide.  I used 10 cups water, 2 cups salt, and 4 tbsp Krowtann.  Left it in the tan for a week since weekends are the only time I can play with my hobbies.  I repositioned the hide twice a day...once in the morning and once in the evening.  Toward the end of the week I noticed my solution turning clear.  So at the end of the week I pulled the hide out, rinsed, neutralized, and washed.  I did some more fleshing and noticed the hide looks, feels, and smells like a totally raw hide.

I did realize that when I first mixed the batch I failed to "Shake the bottle".  I'm following the current set of directions on Ozark Wood's website (suppose I'm not the only one who's noticed there's multiple versions of instructions floating out there).  Not sure exactly what my expectations are, but figured a tanned hide would exhibit some evidence that it was tanned.  I was going to mount up the skin this weekend, but figured just to be safe I double checked my ingredients and mixed up a fresh batch of Krowtann.  The skin's now back in the tan.  Well, at least the hide isn't slipping.

[George Roof]

Jim, I guess I'm missing either your question or your point. Brian Harness invented this product sure that he was simplifying a process that couldn't be screwed up. Sadly, he's learned like many of us already knew, that's impossible. People actually like for things to be more complicated than they are. Just mount your squirrel.

[JimE]

Was just making a comment to see if anyone else had this experience.  I'll mount it tomorrow and see what happens.

[John C]

I have to agree with George.  Now one seems to have enough common sense to google Krowtann and get the directions. duh.

[JimE]

I have to agree with George.  Now one seems to have enough common sense to google Krowtann and get the directions. duh.

Seems you're assuming I never bothered to read any of the numerous versions of directions floating around and therefore are devoid of any common sense.  OK, then if that's what you can offer.  I'm following the directions posted on krowtann.com figuring that one should be the most current.  The only mistake I could see I potentially made was forgetting to shake the bottle before measuring it out and adding it to the mixture.  So is this stuff really that unforgiving that one oversight like that could completely foul up the entire process? Yes, No, Maybe, Unlikely, Definately?? 

Biggest question really is it normal for the mixture to turn clear?  Seems my version of the directions don't mention anything like that.  Anyone see that before?  My gut feeling says no, combined that with my 'tanned' skin has all the attributes of a raw skin raises doubts.  That's why I declared a mulligan, remixed a fresh batch (being sure to shake the bottle this time) and posted here for some feedback from other users.

[bmdakk (Bryan)]

I would nt waste it on a squirrel. jmo

[John C]

http://krowtann.com/krowtann_instructions.htm

This is the link to the one set of directions that you get results from.

All others are BS.  Now you have a problem not looking up the real directions.  Forty ways to something and one of them is the correct way. Follow directions, duh.

[George Roof]

OK Jim, I guess I may as well break it down to its simplist terms.  The ONLY REASON you shake it is to insure that the tanning oils now contained in the mixture require that so that they agitate properly so as to get oils into your skin along with the acid mix.  Therein lies the biggest problem with making things too simple for beginners.  See?  You ASSUMED  things that were not in fact and if you'd just accepted the directions verbatim, you'd have never been wiser.  So you DID learn something.  Now follow the directions Brian supplies.  Discard all those "others out there" as they are from guys trying to oversimply the simple.

BTW, I'm like Bryan and would have never wasted $20 worth of chemicals on a tree rat.

[freeze_1]

Here ya go, straight from the Krowtann site.

If the skin is extra large and seems "crowded" use 25-50% more of each of the ingredients
 NOTE: Always shake up Krowtann before each use
 
For maximum results follow directions
 
Directions for use (use only in a plastic container)
 1.Rough flesh the skin, turning the lips, nose, ears, and eyes. Wash bloody and dirty skins before putting them in the tan. Degrease oily skins by your normal methods before going on to step 2. Wash in clear water before putting the skin in the tan.
2.Mix up the prescribed amount of tan, salt and water in a plastic container and submerge the skin, skin side out, and weigh it down with a water filled milk jug. Keep a lid on your container.
3.Leave the skin in the tan for 1-4 days, depending on the thickness of the skin. We recommend 3-4 days in most cases. (refer to commonly asked questions 1,2 and 9) Each day lift the skin out of the tan and stretch it out, and return it to the tan in a new position to insure that the tan is reaching all parts of the skin. Do not stir the skin while in the tan.
4.Pull the skin out of the tan and wash the skin in clear water for a few minutes.
5.In a separate bucket add the appropriate amount of water and sodium bicarbonate per chart above. Submerge the skin with a water filled milk jug and leave the skin in this mixture for 15 minutes. Agitate the skin occasionally. Extra large skins will require more of the mixture.
6.Wash the skin, hair side out, in Liquid Tide and rinse well in clear water.
7.Do your final fleshing at this time. Afterwards, if the skin is not soft and stretchy at this point, then re-neutralize the hide in a fresh batch of sodium bicarbonate and water (step 5) for 5 minutes.
8.(optional) Shampoo your skin at this time.
9.The skin is now ready to mount or can be frozen to mount at a later date.
10.Slowly add sodium bicarbonate to the tanning mixture until ph of 7 is obtained before disposing of it.
 Troubleshooting
 1.The skin is not soft or stretchy: you have either not neutralized the skin long enough or have not fleshed the skin thin enough. Complete step 7.
2.The hair is slipping: you probably had a bad skin to start with, you have over neutralized the skin or have not used the correct amount of salt. Mount the skin ASAP trying not to tug or pull on the slipping area. You can apply de-natured alcohol to the affected area. When the skin is dry it should set the hair. Using Krowtann, slipping should not be a problem.
3.There is not enough stretch: apply Krow-Oil to the skin only in the neck area. Let it set for 1-2 hours before mounting or freezing.
 
If the directions are followed correctly, your skin should feel like a wet dish towel and have as much stretch as a green skin.
 However, due to this product being used in conditions beyond our control, we make no warranty of any kind, expressed or implied. We suggest that you try Krowtann on a scrap skin first.
 An instructional DVD is available for purchase through Ozark Woods (800) 467-0369
 

[Top of Ohio Taxidermy]

Hey Jim,

I'm going to spare you all the smart ass comments that seem to abound, for some reason.

I use Krowtann on the odds and ends, that I do not ship to the tannery, that would include the stragglers that come in after deer season after the others have been shipped etc.
I used it for everything previously, but now am getting busier and decided it's time for me to spend more time mounting and less time tanning.
Everyone has their own needs, opinions, and justifications.
DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU AND YOUR SITUATION.

From my experience:
I have never seen a batch turn clear towards the end, rather gets darker, however I have never done one piece in a batch that small either.
Typically my hides always get lighter colored as the process goes through it's stages and thus the liquid actually gets darker (The color has to go somewhere).
I always test the salinity of my mixture and the PH.... BEFORE I PUT A HIDE INTO THE SOLUTION. This serves several purposes.
1) to make sure I didn't forget or skip a step.
2) Verifies that I used all the correct ingredients, (someone didn't get the lids mixed up on the Salt and Baking soda or Boroaxo Buckets)...... (yes that has happened).........
3) Your water softener or city water supply quality fluctuates based on demand and the incoming raw water. (If you just cleaned and recharged your softener, your salinity is going to be high)
4) Verifies the salt got completely mixed and dissolved. (yes, that happened also, every have a customer show up just as you started mixing something)
If nothing else Peace of mind.....
Also don't do anything to the hide prior to putting it in the solution that could leave anything in it that may affect the PH If you wash prior, Rinse, rinse, and rinse...............
Don't skimp, use bigger batches as opposed to smaller, the more solution is available the less likely the composition will change during the process.

Don't rush it
If your not sure leave it in or start another batch.
You can leave a hide in a pickling solution allot longer than needed, as long as there is no air pockets (thats why we stretch and reposition) bacteria can not survive and do damage.

Hope this all came across as constructive, because that is the way it is intended.
I'm no chemist or biologist or anything impressive, just a grunt trying to help out.

Have a great day and good luck.
Bud

[George Roof]

OK, Bud, since you're such the paragon of niceness and beauty, would you mind sharing with us what the pH of Krowtan is supposed to be and how often Brian Harness says you should test it?  How about salinity? How do these wise and wonderful tests "verify what you used"? Now it seems that the only difference between us "smartasses" and a smartass like you is that we actually follow directions and you managed to dream up your own.

[Top of Ohio Taxidermy]

Have a great day everyone,

Good Luck Jim

Let us know how it turns out.

If you would like to discuss anything by all means drop me a line or call me at 937-935-7232

[JimE]

Thanks for the info.  I mixed up a fresh batch and let the hide sit in there for another day.  I mounted it up yesterday, we'll see what happens.

Water quality would be interesting to note.  My sink is set up to use reclaimed RO drain water.  Total Dissolved Solids will be higher than regular tap water, but our water isn't that bad to start with.  After a day in the fresh batch it looked like the mixture was separating as it had brown blotches floating on the surface.  Had no chunks of anything, all the salt was in solution.

What kind of salt do you use?  I'm using Morton Pickling & Canning salt.  Figured that would be a better choice than ordinary table salt.   

[George Roof]

It's not a better choice.  It will certainly work but table salt dissolves much faster than the coarser pickling salt.

[hounddoggy]

a squerily? really? people tan and krowtann squirrels?       powder    and mount  problem solved