60 Year old Nortern Pike Restoration Questions

[Top of Ohio Taxidermy]

Hi All,

Have an old Northern that was mounted about 60 years ago, friend of mines father caught and had it mounted. It looks pretty ridiculous and he asked me to try to make it respectable
He gave me the ok to try anything I wanted and do some experimenting..... I'm in...What the heck.

The old skin mount was done using a layer of fabric and thinset on the inside of the front half of the fish covered by another layer of fabric and allowed to dry to hold the desired shape.
the whole thing was then packed with sawdust and sewn shut, mouth filled with casting and it was done.... Needless to say it may have looked good back in the day, but now it's hideous.

>The original fins were in terrible shape and I have removed and replaced them with artificial fins, that went well....
>Removed everything from inside the fish and cleaned up as much as possible, worked better than I thought
>Overall shape is pretty decent so I'm going to leave as is.
>Original gill plates are on fish but are locked in tight to side of head, probably not going to try to open the front gill plate, just live with it, unless someone has a good recommendation....
>I am Carving casting material in mouth to make a tongue and throat, and so far its going pretty well
>I'm up for suggestions on body form, tried spray foam, and it started out working great, two or three days and everything was plumped up and filled in nice until.....
>It shrank after three days and sucked the skin back in with it.......  opppsy that looked like crap
>Got all the foam worked back out and things cleaned up again, thinking on trying a two part urethane foam this time? Any recommendation or suggestions would be appreciated

[JL]

Why not just refill the body with modern "fish fill"? JL

[M.T.]

Am I right in assuming that you must have rehydrated the skin? If so, then why? If the body shape was decent, then fix any lumps or dents with apoxie sculpt or something like that./  Replace the fins, do your mouthwork, and repaint, there, almost like new!

[3bears]

I would probably use two part foam to fill it up with. I think fish fill might be too heavy. I would have waited to install new fins. If head is that bad maybe an artificial will fix that. You will need something relatively solid in the body to attach the head to. Most anything is possible it will just take imagination and time to complete. Worse comes to worse sell him on a replica. 3bears

[John C]

Its not thinset as you know it. its plaster filled with asbestos. Its sealed int he fish, sealed in the plaster so its safe unless you grind it.Then if you have to use a vaccum to pull the dust away from your grinder/dremel etc.

[CrabCrazy]

I wouldn't be grinding any asbestos out in the open......breathing any part of it could be deadly...even a couple fibers od it....I worked for a company that removed it, and we wrapped the piece in a special bag and saturated it with a surfactant

[Top of Ohio Taxidermy]

Thanks for the feedback guys, and I need to clarify a couple things:
Only a little experience with fish, and never done a restoration so I'm in uncharted waters here (for me that is)

>I didn't rehydrate the skin, shape isn't bad
>I have already removed the fabric and plaster/asbestos, (without grinding) just took my good old time and worked it loose from the skin and pulled it all out and pitched it.
    > although I must admit I didn't even know I was working with Asbestos, so I got lucky on that one.....
>The skin is retaining its shape for the most part, and don't want to rehydrate unless I need to, although there are some areas that I would like to "adjust" if possible.
     > the spray foam worked great for that due to the expanding characteristics, until it shrunk when fully cured.....
>The head really doesn't look that bad and I think I can live with it, as is.
     > subject to change once i get everything else set, then if I'm not happy, I will install an artificial head.
     > Have used artificial heads on all my Trout and Salmon so far so I don't think that will be an issue if I decide to.

All that being said I still need to fill the body, and have never used the two part urethane foam or the "Fish Fill"
> Would either of them give me and advantage of expanding to push some low spots in the current shape out to give me a little more "Fill" ?

Thanks in advance and keep the opinions/suggestions coming, they are appreciated.

[3bears]

Probably not on the part of pushing low spots out unless it was rehydrated prior to, and I probably wouldn't do that. How big is it? If it has any size, I think fish fill will be too heavy. Good luck, 3bears

[Top of Ohio Taxidermy]

It's not huge, overall length is only 44"
When you guys talk fish fill, are you talking about  a "paper mache" type fill?
If that's what it is, I would have to agree it would be heavy when done.
And I'm not sure it would not have enough moisture to rehydrate the skin enough to allow it to loose it's shape too much.

I guess I never really explained that the original mount filling had apparently lost some volume over the years (I'm assuming the sawdust continued to dry and shrink"
and therefore the mount could not be handled or simply cleaned and painted due to the amount of movement the skin would have had.
I felt like I needed to get it stiffened back up before refinishing so that it would hold up.

Thanks

[JL]

Look through the supply catalogs for a fish fill that is made with a "foam-bead and plaster base". Or you can make your own filler with Vermiculite and plaster or white carpenter glue. You can go to a garden store and they sell the foam beads they use to "Loosen" planting soil. Get that and work up your own formula by adding plaster of Paris until you get consistency you want to work with. Embed a mounting block in the filler as you fill the fish. Also, plan ahead and insert a long, narrow block to aid in supporting a repro head if you need to. This isn't rocket science....and if you pack well as you sew you'll get rid of the bumps and voids you have. Just my opinion after 61 years of experience..lol  JL