fleshing and turning lips and nose and eyes

[silverman]

I just completed my first skinning and rough fleshing head without putting a hole in the lips and every where else,the ears came out beautiful.It took me a hair over 4 hours,I thought that was good time considering it is only number 12.What do you guys think ?

[Keyda81]

That's a lot better than I did!  I put so many small holes in the lips of my deer.  They are so thin!  I can't remember how long it took me, but it seemed like it too forever, lol. 

[silverman]

No more comments ?

[kikkertinz]

how long did the first one take ya?...4 hrs for rough fleshing on #12 seems a bit long yet, keep at it

[silverman]

The first one took along time,I just never timed it.I would like to get it down to 1 hour.

[kikkertinz]

just dont rush it, trying to do it faster will give you more problems. efficiency will come with repitition

[Keyda81]

just dont rush it, trying to do it faster will give you more problems. efficiency will come with repitition

X2!  I was trying to rush through mine a bit, was worked about hair slippage, and put a few small holes in the skin.  Investing in stop rot before the next project!

[silverman]

Thanks alot guys,I will just keep plugging at it.

[George Roof]

Silverman, you take as long as it takes.  This isn't a race and you only "win" when you don't have to repair damages that were self-inflicted.  Still, 4 hours is a long time to be handling a skin without risking spoilage and slippage.  Spray your capes down with Stop Rot and let it set for an hour or so before you start.

Now don't try to do this at home.  I've been fleshing deer for a few weeks now and I use the fleshing wheel on the neck and open areas of the face and neck.  For the ears, eyes, nose, and lips, it's all done by hand using a #10 scalpel. I use earliners so all the cartilage is removed.  When I'm done, if you were using DP, you could mount it right then.  Total times are usually around one hour.  The wheel is usually 10 to 15 minutes and the hand work is about 45-50 (The ears and nose and oil glands under the eyelids slow me up a bit.)  Now that took me 50 years to pull off and I'm presuming you have awhile before you get to that point.  LOL

[huntingpal]

I'm with George on this speed isn't all good if the end product has to have more time put in it to make repairs. Do it slower but correct the first time and time is saved in the long haul.


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[silverman]

Thanks alot George and hunting pal,your help is very nice to receave.

[Paul D]

As FYI, regarding bacterial growth- there isn't going to be a significant difference in bacterial proliferation/number of bugs between 1 hr and 4 hr.  So, don't let bacterial growth worry you/make you rush.

   

[George Roof]

As FYI, regarding bacterial growth- there isn't going to be a significant difference in bacterial proliferation/number of bugs between 1 hr and 4 hr.  So, don't let bacterial growth worry you/make you rush.

   

I'm sorry but that has to be the dumbest damn statement I've heard lately. Exactly at what point WOULD you "worry" about spoilage and bacteria? Seeing as how the hide was handled afield and the 8-10 hours thawing, the taxidermist should ALWAYS be concerned with what the extra body heat might exacerbate.

[Paul D]

George- 37C (aka your body temperature) is the optimal growth temperature for virtually all bacteria, which is why they live in a human/animal to begin with.  Even in the most ideal conditions, at body temp. bacterial doubling time is ~45 min.  Bacteria don't tolerate temperatures below 30C well...they survive fine but don't readily proliferate.  That is why you put them in the freezer, the bacteria will still survive but won't grow & is why you don't have spoilage.  Bacteria can grow very slowly at 4C (refrigerator) which is why you can't leave a carcass (or food) in the refrigerator for extended periods of time without spoilage.  At 24C (aka room temperature) their doubling time is ~ 2 hrs, and when being thawed they will actually go through what is called "lag" phase, or a lag in growth, so it actually takes about an hr before they even begin growing/dividing every 2 hr. 

Thus, if someone takes a deer out of a freezer, thaws it and immediately fleshes it out there really is no difference in bacterial load when taking 1 hr vs 4 hr to flesh that deer at room temp.  If you thaw it out and leave it sit for hrs before you begin work, then you better hussle.

I hope this explains the dumbest damn statement you have heard in a long time.  It is basic microbiology 101.

[George Roof]

Paul, practicality and physiology trump your microbiology every time.  So listen closely and you may learn something.  The normal body temperature of a whitetail deer is 105 degrees (a bit above your optimum temperature for bacteria growth).  When you shoot a deer, it doesn't freeze while falling to the ground. In FACT, the propensity for bacteria grows exponentially because aside from all the cells in the carcass shutting down at once, a physical intrusion (aka, bullet or arrow entry) has been made to the internal organs, oftentimes spilling the stomach and gut areas with bacteria that had, heretofore, been minding their own business digesting food are now freed to leak out of holes and saturate the interior AND EXTERIOR of the deer.

Now I'm getting old so I have an ATV for retrieving my deer, but most often, I stay in my stand until it's dark.  That means the carcass can lay there conservatively for an hour or two before I start field dressing.  (If I was still full of piss and vinegar, I'd be dragging the carcass out to the road some distance away.) The body temperature is working towards ambient temperature, but that's going to take awhile. In warmer climates, it still may only reach 70 degrees at best.  Then I cart it to the butcher who only has about 75 other deer in front of me and the carcass is tossed on to a pile so it can gather the body fluids and excretions left by the ones there before him.  I'm told to come back tomorrow for the hide.  The hide is stripped off and thrown in a cardboard box in an outside shed. I get there 14-16 hours later and retrieve my hide.  Then I take it to my friendly taxidermist who's doing this parttime anyway.  He says he'll get right on it and hopefully he will.  Still, now the hide is caped out and put in the freezer.  Remember now, we aren't dipping the hide in liquid nitrogen, we're putting it in the freezer which will take some time to cool the hide below freezing.

Our friendly taxidermist decides that he'll work my hide tomorrow.  He takes the hide out and it thaws in his shop (we hope he doesn't have any heat there).  Then when he finally gets to fleshing it, it takes him 4 hours to get all the red meat removed from the skin.  We would hope that he salts it, but we know many just toss it back in the freezer until they get more time to work on it.

Now that scenario isn't playing out in Microbiology 101, but in most taxidermy shops around this country.  Therein lies the reason that, from experience, I stand behing that being the dumbest damned statement I've heard lately. One should ALWAYS be concerned with exacerbating bacteria growth to reduce the chance of slippage.