fleshing and turning lips and nose and eyes

[Keyda81]

I have to agree with George on this one.  I'd rather not take the chance. 

[ARBowhunter]

nicely said George. there is a huge difference between textbooks and real life.

[Todd B]

Gonna have to agree with George.  The difference in bacteria growth from 1 to 4 hours is a lot.  Bacteria doubles every twenty minutes.  So just think of the millions of bacteria caused by George's scenario and imagine those bacteria doubling 36 times.  If you are bored just do the math.  Best thing is try and pick up your pace or use the stop rot like George advised.  Good luck.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

[bullwhacker]

I find there is a kind of sweet spot balance between some damage and saving time. I can sew up minor skinning nicks in minutes. I have been doing this for 20 years and used to do a lot more per year than I do now, but I am at a point that I can take a caped deer head and skin it; flesh, split, and turn the cape; cut the off the rack and clean the cap; salt the hide; and clean it all up in under 90 minutes. I will cut a small hole now and then, but I would rather fly through them than act like I'm working with explosives and have it take forever.

Now if your doing more harm than good then slow down. Really damaged ears can take a long time to turn and that is just the way it is at times.

[George Roof]

And all bets are off if you're working on a fox. They spoil before they hit the ground.

[Paul D]

George, you lost me at "cardboard box".  The 3.2 quadbillion variables that you threw out there would certainly be bad for any hide, no question there and that wasn't the basis for the initial post.  

In direct response to the initial question- I'm saying that if you go from freezer to thaw to fleshing, there will be no significant difference in bacterial load 1 hr as compared to 4 hr.  Whether you believe it or not really doesn't matter to me, it is true.  

Cardboard box or not, we can answer this question within a week.  Are you willing to make a wager?  

[alex c]

George you said it before some things cant be fixed lol
 

[George Roof]

Paul, are you American? If you don't understand the butcher tossing the cape in a cardboard box (so individual customers' capes don't get mixed) then I'm presuming you're not. And you're insistent in taking a snippet of time to reach a scientific fact while completely disregarding what all of us know as reality. You can't use you 4to hour window and disregard the probabilities of the 24 before it. You might dazzle some with brilliance but you're not about to baffle the rest of us with bullspit. I've had hide slip when I THAWED them. You're in my world now and your quadrillion or quintillion / sextillion / septillion /octillion multiplications don't count here.

[Paul D]

Good lord George.  The guy asked about taking 4 hr to flesh out a deer.  I merely stated pure fact- that at room temperature bacteria don't multiply rapidly enough that he should feel rushed based on that alone.  Period.  Bacteria simply don't operate that fast- they don't even become active that quick let alone replicate within that timespan at room temp.  The toxins that those bacteria release to cause epithelial cell damage and, consequently, slippage has already occurred. Bacteria don't even produce them at room temperature.     

I've lurked here long enough to know that you are "that guy", the one who has done more, knows all, your way is the only way and thinks everyone else is retarded.  50 yrs in the business- good for you- but you don't have to get your panties in a bunch when someone points out that you are wrong.  I really don't care if you believe me or not, I'm just stating the facts for the orginal poster.

[George Roof]

No Paul you still don't get it. I'm not arguing what the replication rate of bacteria is. I'm telling you that in a classroom your information is correct but in a real taxidermy shop, its useless ESPECIALLY when you can't possibly know how far the bacteria has progressed. I'd like to see you stop lurking and take 4a hours to flesh a roadkilled fox. THEN come on here and give us that spiel.

[siogreen]

I have handled hides for years for the fur trade and never thought about bacteria growth. Now that I am just getting my feet wet in taxidermy you guys really have me thinking about bacteria. Just wondering why doesn’t the hide slip when you just scrape, board and let dry?

[spy7575]

stop rot is your best friend.

[dirtholeman]

Just can not help but to laugh at how simple grand minds are. My main concern is the meat coming from the butcher shop that piles up 75 deer.

[Tom King]

I've been working skins for 20+ years and 1 hour vs 4 hours can and often does make a difference....There are too many factors that come into play as to what happened with that cape before you got it....Like maybe it was drug threw some bad blood at the processor for example....
You can throw this textbook crap at Me all day long and it means nothing .....years of experience does.....
The textbook says that Krowtan is not a tan too but I have pieces of backhide off Krowtan mounts that are definitely leather....

Some good advise for you Silverman......Stop Rot helps but My advise is to just keep your cape cold.....if it gets warm then put it in the freezer to chill it down....this will extend your safe working time....
I know this for a fact because I specialize in teaching beginners and it is proven over and over again for the past four years with My students....
Speed will come with time....just worry about doing it right and keep up the good work......

[Clara D.]

Lol you should see my cape. It looks like a strainer.