Beetle genetics

[Blackavar15]

Quick question: Should I buy more beetles to up the genetic diversity of my colony? I've had the same small colony for about two years now and I'm worried that if I don't add more I may come home to find that I don't have any beetles left or they won't process as well anymore. Is this something I should feel justified worrying about or am I just paranoid?

[chickenhawk]

Paranoid! Inbreeding never hurt no one. You ought to meet my cousin/uncle! Lol

[Blackavar15]

Hahaha Well, I'm still going to buy a few hundred more to beef up my colony and ease my paranoia either way.

[Matt_S]

Do you keep your colony small?  You mentioned having a "small" colony for two years and I am just curious.  Small colonies don't stay small for long.

[Voltrax]

beetle inbreed leads to decrease of immunity. You will have many dead or deformed beetles and larvae. Beef them up

[ravenswings1]

Paranoid! Inbreeding never hurt no one. You ought to meet my cousin/uncle! Lol

I guess you have never heard of the ostrich people of Africa as one example.

[PA]

Actually I don't believe there is any problem in having the beetles dwindle in number and then expand and dwindle again. I have had no influx of new 'stock' in 30 years of running a colony here and have had some very small populations after various problems that have long since been resolved. Hybrid vigor may apply to higher vertebrates but most invertebrates have extremely small populations on an annual basis and have evolved to survive very well without 'new blood'. Most colony nesters - for example ants, have one single female giving bird to thousands of young with very similar genomes.

I would actually think that if you have a healthy colony, you would risk that by bringing in outside beetles which may have mites or have probale ms with mixed species (red legged ham beetles are sold with colonies at times).

Now, if I was in the business of charging 150 for a handfull of beetles, I would promote diversity at every turn, but I do not believe it is necessary.

[Voltrax]

PA one of my few passions is entomology. I know what I'm talking about. Beetles are very hard to kill by inbreed, but it is possible. First of all their immunity will decrease and they will be more prone for fungus attack,temperature and probably mites too.
Check your colony for deformations. You will probably find many, but they are often cause of too low humidity and/or too little space.
Inbreed leads to sterility.
And yes. Your colony would be much bigger if not inbreed.
You should bring some fresh beetles every few years.
Just to be sure that nothing will suprice you

[Toxic]

if a few hundred would beef up your colony, sounds like you don't have a colony. sounds more like a starter kit. I started with a 500 count starter kit a few years ago and they are now  multiple colonies. great group of workers I may add, nothing weak or wrong with these guys (that are all related)

[joeym]

This reminds me of studying about old Gregor Mendel, who sure had fun playing with fruitfly genetics, LOL!   You should worry about a myriad of other problems with your colony besides inbreeding.  Chances are pretty good that you would not recognize any difference in the life or health of your colony simply by introducing a different genetic pool.   Insects are not like people...they are a much simpler lifeform, that have survived for millenia in isolated societies.

[Sea Wolf]

Keep an eye out for ones playing banjos in the hidden corners. If you add more, get them from an honorable and trusted breeder .. like Ken (Fogbound). That way you won't be getting mites or other hitch hikers.

[Guus]

I have to agree with the ones that state that inbreeding is not a big issue. I discussed this topic with fellow osteologists here in Europe that are not active on this site and that have been using beetles for several decades. They often started with few individuals (literally a couple of them) and have had strong larger and smaller colonies for a long time. I started myself with only around 25 individuals and have three strong colonies since then, each around 1500 individuals I would guess. I only clean small skeletons and delicate skulls with beetles, so I have no need of a large colony. Natural fluctuations in numbers occur, but I don't think productivity or their health suffers from such a small gene pool.

[PA]

I respect your opinion Voltrax, I just don't agree with it. I addressed the same question in the past at this post:
http://www.taxidermy.net/forum/index.php/topic,73169.0.html

Another aspect to consider. Since many on this site buy bugs from Fogbound, what would be the advantage of getting more bugs from him, or from descendants of his bugs previously sent the the lower 48.

I would surmise that if you had the entire genetic complement of a specific cockroach from 200 million years ago, it probably hasn't changed much to those living today. Insects are simple creatures who evolved long ago to deal with survival much better than higher "evolved" species like we supposedly are.

[Blackavar15]

Thanks for your input everyone! Right now my colony is small enough to fit in a large rubbermaid container but big enough to polish off an otter skull in a week. I do this mainly as a hobby with a few customer pieces every now and then so I don't really need a huge colony. Once I get paid for some antler mounts I did awhile back I'll get a few hundred more just to stay on the safe side.