Stupid question probably, but why is cow hide tanning different............

[michael p.]

When you get a cow hide back from a commercial tannery here in the States they are nice, but the quality (I guess that's how you would describe it) is nothing like the Brazillian or Columbian cowhides sold through such venues as El Paso Saddle & Blanket Company.  You can roll those suckers up into a ball, stomp on then and beat them with a bat and they still roll right out and lay flat as a pancake.  The commercially tanned hides here are soft, but it's like comparing Charmin to Generic toilet paper.

So my question is, what makes them so different and can that tan be reproduced here by anybody in the States?

[joeym]

Good ? mp!   And those Central/South American cow hides are shaved very thin.  They lay flat as a pancake.   I see them for sale at flea markets...ridiculously low priced at $199!!!  I have a Mexican friend who says his grandfather operates a tannery in Mexico.  He says you can smell it for miles around.  Everything there is very old.  I'd love to visit it someday!

[Keith Daniels]

I'm a little confused, you're saying you like the south American ones better? If that's the case just tell your tannery to stretch them out flat on a wall and let them dry stiff instead of finishing them out, you'll get about the same results. Soaking them and tacking them out after you get them back will get you pretty close too, they'll lay real flat then.

[J Brown II]

Chrome tan. That's all.

[oldshaver]

Chrome tan. That's all.

John is partially right.
Chrome is the main tannage, but they are tanned, then re-tanned,with different synthetics. The oils used also provide a firmer "handle", but that soft feel at the same time. There are literally dozens of types of oils they can utilize. Also water proofing, and flame retardant additives.

The type of tanner Michael is speaking of, STRIVES to fill ALL VOIDS in the collegen network with tannage by stacking one on top of the other, of opposite charges. Same principle with the oils used.

This is why they can be rolled up in a "tight" tube, versus a "limp" rug.

[Keith Daniels]

I don't think south America strives to do anything other than chrome it, toggle it, trim it and ship it. if you have the dark blue look it's from the pH it's finished out at, you won't get the dark blue on one that's re-tanned because the re-tan is on top of the chrome before the pH is brought up as high.

[J Brown II]

Keith I don't know a hell of alot about chrome. Don't they fat liquor chrome tans?

[oldshaver]

Keith I don't know a hell of alot about chrome. Don't they fat liquor chrome tans?

Yes they do John. That is also when they often re-tan(during the fat liquoring process), and it doesnt change the color.

Where Im at, the sky is blue today.

I guess instead of the word "strive", I should have said they HAVE to fill all the voids, for a skin to behave the way Mike described.

[Keith Daniels]

They do here, hard to say what happens in SA. You don't see the dark blue look on the chromed skins here because of the re-tan and finish process. I'd have to pull notes out or make a call for a reminder, but I think you'll find that by finishing out the chrome at a lower pH, which is also where the fat liqour bonds, then doing the re-tan with a synthetic and bringing the pH up higher to finish it out you avoid the dark blue color. When you see piles of bucksin in Gloversville that hasn't been dyed yet it's almost white, the suede side is more noticeable as far as a very slight blue green tint.

There are also different chromes, some are no longer legal here in the US, which make a color difference.

A wet skin that's toggled real tight will dry very thin and flat, no matter what tan you use.

[oldshaver]

http://www.fashionnetasia.com/en/IndustryNews/Detail.html?id=1432

http://www.alibaba.com/product/br110516604-110296713-101641410/Cow_Hair_on_Hides_on_Natural_Shape.html

http://www.epa.gov/ttnchie1/ap42/ch09/final/c9s15.pdf

Just a little FYI.

Finally figured out how they make those zebra striped cow skins!LOL

[Timber Ghost]

mark

[hounddoggy]

its all in how they mooooooooove