Pre-Rotated Eyes Or Not? What Is Your Preference?

[Bill Yox]

Glen, good point, be it my favorite paint, or our two horses, or Jim Willards two captive bears, or yours or my dog, the scelera is there, just past the limbus band. The pic you have there shows a buck that Ill guess is pointing its muzzle slightly downward, and the back edge of the eye skin is starting to crowd the eyelid (note the crease) yet, because its focused forward, the scelera does indeed show! Nice pic.

[Glen Conley]

Uh, Glen, maybe it's these old eyes or maybe even a bad transfer of your intended picture, but damned if I don't see white behind that faded brown band of scleral tissue (you know, the brown with the black dot in it) and IF it is white I see, that's just about as much as I ever show.  This guy looks all rutted up anyway and his eyes seem swollen to me, but God made'em with white sclera and so does Tohickon and those are the ones I use. LOL

Yep, it's yer eyes, Uncle George.  I made some adjustments on your monitor for you so's you can see things better.  Bad guess on him being a rut buck, A day or two into hard antler and he would turn into a Bad Boy.

Bill, you liked that photo before......that's one from those eye reference disks we did back a few years ago.  You didn't print that out and hang it in your shop?  What do you do for reference?

[George Roof]

OK Glen, that'll let you off with your doctored picture. LMAO.  HOWEVER, we both know that the deer does have a white sclera and no one makes the brown ones like your queer deer here has.  Those big dumb half marble brown ones are about as realistic as me being a virile male.

[Bill Yox]

Hate to spoil the party...Brad Eppely allows the brown to bleed out into the scelera too...

[Glen Conley]

I don't want to spoil the party so I'll go-o-o.
I'd hate for my disappointment to sho-ow.........

'Tis true about the brown in Brad's eyes.  It's actually 3 mm at the widest point behind the limbus band.

Now if we take the photo of the deer eye above (I just did this) and use a photo program to size it to a pretty close 32 mm by using winged dividers, a Measurite, or by simply holding one of the eyes over the photo, the width of the brown sclera/scelera displayed from the limbus band to Uncle George's white spot is 4 mm.

Using the same techniques to measure Willy you will have to resize the photo first in order to reduce to 32 mm.  That will then give a measurement of 4 mm from the limbus to the back canthus, or eye corner.

In both animals it appears as if the brown scelera/sclera extends in underneath the lid, a short coming of my program is that I can not move the lid back to take a look with out moving the whole eye.............

Now for the Bonus Round!

What is the smallest inside diameter of the blood veins in Willy's eyes, and how long does it take for a gallon of blood to be pumped through them?

[ty1on20]

I'm not as seasoned as you three, but I had a chance to talk to a wildlife photographer that mainly shot whitetails, he said that he went through thousands of pictures that he has taken over the years and only a handful didn't show at least a hint of white. He also stated that these bucks where totally realaxed, but this is just his word. I like the sliver of white, I use joe meder eyes now, but I might order one of those epply eyes to see how they are.

[Glen Conley]

OK Glen, that'll let you off with your doctored picture. LMAO.  HOWEVER, we both know that the deer does have a white sclera and no one makes the brown ones like your queer deer here has.  Those big dumb half marble brown ones are about as realistic as me being a virile male.

I know they come in colors.  I tend to assume nothing and let the evidence show...........I see you're braggin' on your virility now.

The scelera/sclera wraps all the way around to the optic nerve, and there is going to be the greater part of it to lack pigment.  So I would have to consider that a cheap way to win an argument.  We're referring to the part that sunshine sees here.

Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes!
Reference!  Reference!  Reference!
These deer get to walk.
http://www.taxidermy.net/forum/index.php/topic,2595.0.html

The address above is where I posted some photos of head studies.  From those photos, I cropped, enlarged,  and then lightened the exposure to show the scelera/sclera.   You guys need to get you one of these computer thangs, they can be as handy as a pocket on a shirt.

The deer are from two different states, West Virginia and Indiana, both having origins from feral stock.  I have named the photos accordingly.  It could be argued that the two W.Va. bucks are related, could well be, but the bottom line is that pigmented sceleras show as the expressed trait.

The last yearling photo in the above photo sequence was an Indiana doe x the buck in this thread.  Brown scelera is expressed again. The eye of the buck in this thread is also that of a W. Va. buck.   I have a number of photos of the mother of the yearling, she too shows brown as expressed.  I remember a number of her past get also showing the same trait.  As to whether we are looking at homozygous dominant, or heterozygous with expressed brown, I couldn't, nor could anyone else here, prove it one way or the other.

ty1on20, I appreciate you referring to Uncle George as "seasoned" instead of just calling him an old doo-doo head.  And thanks for the contribution to this thread on shared observations.

The only thing consistent about animals is that they are consistently inconsistent.  Bio-diversity is what some refer to it as.

[Bill Dishman]

i like the pre rotated eyes and use them all the time. they may not be what some might call "anatomically correct" but that little bit of white in the corners adds  the extra finished look and expression that i like.