Static tan with bilge pump

[RichWolfe]

I added a small 12 volt bilge pump to my 6 gallon bucket of tan for 1 coyote and 1 bobcat yesterday at 2:00 pm.  In a few more hours
i 'll have results  from the use of the 12v. pump.  Chemicles used  were EZ 100.

[jnj10212001]

Rich,

I have no clue what you just said LoL.  I'm new to tanning and would like a short explaination of what you are trying to do.

Thank you for your time,
Jose Q

[mr.T aka mr. friendly]

My question is about your testing, how can you tell the difference between a cape in a static tan vs. a cape in a static tan with a ciculation pump. How are you going to tell the difference in the outcome?

[Edgewater Taxidermy Galen]

Mr. T.

I am with you on that. I am not sure how to tell the difference either.


 I am just Guessing,,,,, but I think the advantage is that a person does not have to keep stirring it by hand every so often.  I have not used any pumps yet .  , I would also like to know what is to gain by using the pumps if anyone knows. 

Plus I just had to put up a post on the new site . 
Galen

[rich wolfe]

OK.....no drum roll needed.....the 12 v. pump worked fine, at least.  The hides seemed, may I say,... just a wee bit grainrier...

I use a variable speed wire wheel to flesh( after initial niife and beam fleshing immediately after skinning) between pickel and tanning operations.

I will know more results in a few days when the hide is dry.  The lifesize coyote didn't make it for lifesize as it's lower rump had old scars and a few fresh bit marks from the January rub (mating).  It also had some hind end " burdock weed"  matting the hair.  The front half will go onto a wall mount and I'll use a small turkey panel with an adjustable euro mount plaque to display the boiled and whitened skull.

SO,.   stand by a few days to find out the results from the dry hide portion.  In the mean time.........just keep on stirring.........! RW, Colorado!

[cold trapper]

I,ve often thought of using one of these plastic pumps for better/faster pickleing. I would be carefull with eze 100 however. Because it is set for static tanning. and when we use eze 100 in a stirring format, the time is cut to 15 minuets agitation then 45 min. rest. for 3.5 - 4 hours only. just thought i'd through that out there tonight.
nice new forum!

[mike w]

you said something about matting of hair ,on long haird animals  Ive tryed thinning shears form a beauty supply, can save alot of questionable skins.

[jrosbor]

Perhaps OS can shed some light on the subject of agitating and it's affects on tanning and pickling. 

It has been my experience that when you agitate like using a bilge pump the tanning time isn't cut quite like if you were using a paddle vat to tan or better yet a wet drum.  I have only pickled in  paddle vats, and it is faster.  When tanning in a wet drum the time is cut down to 4hrs and no more!  I believe the reason they are so much faster is because both of them turn or roll the hides and capes as well as agitating the solution.  Just to play it safe, I would check for fixation after 4hrs and every 2hrs after that.  My guess is that your method would take about 8-12hrs for full fixation on  the yote and cat.  Just a guess though.

[RichWolfe]

RESULTS Summary: 
    The time in the tan was too long at 18 hours.  At 11 hours I observed the clear and fine bubbls had turned  a yellow color and much larger bubbles, somewhat like the foam on shore from a wind blown lake surface.  The hides had good stretch and white color leather.

The portion of hide nailed out dried very papery and slick.  The portion that was ran under the wire wheel produced a pebble grain leather.  The hide under the wire wheel could take more abuse and not burn through as easily as normal static tan on previous coyotes.

Thank you all for your contributions that make this a great place to visit about our craft and share ideas.  <> RichWolfe<>

[George Roof]

Now I'm lost.  A static tan and an agitated tan are virtually the same.  All the agitation does is to insure that the entire hide is contacted with the tanning agent.  Time is not now nor ever has been an issue.  A tan permeates the hide.  A tan is done when it's done and agitating it is not going to speed the process up significantly.  To insure a hide is tanned all the way through, you  could slice it along the edge and see if it's white all the way through or press your thumbnail down into it.  If the indent stays, the tan has "taken".  Big tanneries time their processes simply because they know that the volume of hides they have will process in a given time.  I know some of the hides get pickled, shave, pickled, shaved, etc until the thickness is correct for taxidermy purposes. These thinner hides WILL tan quicker simply because there's less hide to tan.

[cold trapper]

When tanning with eze 100 the static tanning time is around 16 hours. When we go to an agitation this same tanning time is cut down to four hours. The process recommended by the supplier, Bruce. is. 15 min stirring, 45 min. rest. Done. after 4 hours. it's most important to check the ph often, remaining as close to 4 as possible. then raise to 5 the last 1/2 hour. pour on the positive charged oil,after an hour or two of drip dry.then hang and dry throughly after sweating in the oil [8-12 hours]  then wow. a super tan.

[Western Rivers]

George, common sense tells you that agitation tan's quicker because i gives the skin constant access to the tan.  I hope you knew that and just felt like arguing!

[wilson]

George, the agitation will speed things up.

Knoblochs has in some of their tans "Percentages are based on drained shaved weight. Times for processesare for wet wheel. The time should be doubled if a paddle vat is used and tripled if a static tan is used"

I tan all in house and In my little world that is true.

[George Roof]

I keep forgetting I'm dealing with taxidermists.  I was talking about the quality of the tan and the effectiveness of the tan itself.  If you'd read all of what I wrote I also implied that the thinner the hide is, the quicker it will tan also.  I SUSPECT that the recommended "times" given are based on "worst case scenarios", but when I tan, regardless of the time I leave it in, I still check to insure that the tan has permeated the skin.  A bilge pump recirculating tanning solution versus a vat with a mechanical agitator are hardly in the same ball park when you talk about "speeding up the tan".

[Bruce Rittel]

Using a bilge pump should be very similiar to a Paddle Vat Tan. Or - said in an other way - the tanning time should be cut to one-third of the time needed to tan using a Static Tan. As an example - instead of 16 hours needed to tan a shaven cape - you should be able to thoroughly tan it in 5.81 hours. I'd give it 6.0 hours - just to be safe.

Thr important part of the process is the turning over of the capes. The more they turn over and fold the more chemicals they tend to absorb. Obviously any mechanical action accelerates the process. It's common to say that a Paddle Vat accelerates a Tan by one-third - whereas a Wet Drum accelerates it by one-fourth!