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Poll
Question: What's the composition of the Liqua-Tan?Cr2o3?Al2so4?or formaldehyde?Thanks!
1   -1 (50%)
3   -1 (50%)
Total Voters: 2

Author Topic: Help me!  (Read 2324 times)
james lin
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« on: October 18, 2006, 09:40:11 PM »

l want to tanning a skin of the coyote.but l have not the Liqua-Tan. Embarrassed
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Hootie
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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2006, 10:35:36 PM »

Is this a game show? Undecided
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jrosbor
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« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2006, 08:11:07 AM »

Wait!  "T", your way off!  It should be, put the coyote in the freezer, call Mr.T!  Or a tannery!  (I like the poll I might add)
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Joe
james lin
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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2006, 08:48:10 AM »

Thanks everyone!But l am a chinese,l can't buy the Liqua-tan.so l thought l can do it by myself.Which use?Al2o3?Cr2o3?or others?
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jrosbor
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2006, 04:07:02 PM »

Al2O3 (aluminum oxide) or Cr2O3 (chrome oxide) won't help you out much.  The best you may have avi to you is aluminum sulfate (Al2(SO4)) would work the best.  Pickle with vinigar having a pH of around 2.  Tan with the Al2(SO4) by using enough to have a pH of 4.  Hope this helps you out!
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Joe
oldshaver
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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2006, 07:59:20 PM »

jorsbor, I dont think I've seen you make a bad tanning post yet. Are you just tanning for yourself, or others? I was once told, alum doesnt fix till a ph of 5, but a leather chemist told me, to my face that I was wrong. He said alum will fix just fine for our purposes, at a ph of 4. I like to see it start around 3, then slowly raise to 4.
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Glen Conley
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KARMA GOOSE R.I.P. 2006-2006


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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2006, 08:19:14 PM »

That Ol' Joe is sharp ain't he, oldshaver?

Speaking of sharp, we've had our crayons sharp for days, just waitin' for you guys to get your mug shots in the Who's Who thread.  Oldshaver, you had said you were going to do that this last week end.  Where's the shot?  Don't give me that stuff you used the shot to miss a deer.
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james lin
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« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2006, 04:30:14 AM »

1.Per gallon of water.1 lb salt.3/4oz sulfuric acid.PH1 to 1.5.pickle through 24 hours.
2.Thin the skin.then return to pickle overnight.
3.Neutralize.
4.Tanning.Per pound of drained skin weight. 3 quarts water.1/2 lb salt.1/4 cup aluminum sulfate.tan for 24 hours.
5.Rinse,spin dry the fur.oil the skin.dry and drum.
Right? but the chemical will wash out.Are there any other way?
Thank you very mach!
James
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cold trapper
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age 15 a trapperman w/7 prime rats!


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« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2006, 01:29:09 PM »

James. salt can be used at a slightly lower proportion. but since it is cheep 1-1 is ok. my main disagreement with you is, that sulfuric acid should be used at about 1 and 1/8 oz. to the gal.
many know that sulfuric acid is a harsh acid. except when used in solution as a pickle. it will bottom quickly and hold the ph very well. using is at slight higher ratio has more benifits than problems.  Wink
ct
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jrosbor
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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2006, 04:27:01 PM »

Mug shots?  Who's who?  Too busy this time of year trying to gather measurements and photos so someone can make a "real deer" form.  Okay... I will look around for a mug shot.

Mr.OS.  I do believe you have hit the nail on the head.  "Or others" would be correct.  I am technically the operations manager for XXXXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXX Co.  A title that was given to me not too long ago by the technical owner of the company.  When the name of that company is reviled, it (to my knowledge) will be the only tannery offering Whitetail Designer Systems as it's primary wet tan.  That statement ought to make the grand master C's eyebrow raise a bit (maybe he will give me a space on the "for rent spot" for free)  I have also done tanning for myself for years and like George, I too have made just about every stupid mistake known to man.  But I still like to make one now and then just to make sure I'm human ;-)  I like to think I'm more of a chemical buff than anything, but I have also stuffed a few critters in my day.

Your comment about the Alum.  To my knowledge most metal salts that can be used for home tanning (the simple type) tend to fix between 3.8 and 4.2.  I am allmost sure the range may be a bit higher but I hate chasing my tail so I tend to use the 3.8-4.2 as a guide.  I don't mess with chrome much so I tend to mind my own business about that.  I'm still working on Coper and Magnesium as potential tanning salts but haven't got them down pat just yet. 

You kids have fun!
« Last Edit: October 21, 2006, 05:47:32 PM by jrosbor » Report to moderator   Logged

Joe
Glen Conley
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« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2006, 02:48:35 PM »

Joe, I've been aimin' to tell you, but I kept forgetting...........

I'm sure you remember the "mystery" skin sample I sent to yer Uncle George some time back, the one that was done without sodium or potassium chloride.  Here's your memory refresher:
http://www.hidetanning.net/GeorgeBrittanica1.html
You had ventured mag sul as a guess of possibility at that time........yer good, Bud, yer good!  That was what had been used.

What I had came up with at the time was too labor intense and expensive to be practical, BUT things have changed.  If you can come up with some play capes and have any of the experimental acid left that was sent to you months ago, something you might want to try.  Actually, you might want to do this with Leatherizing Acid also and compare differences.

Salt as sodium chloride is not to be used at all, in fact, don't even allow the capes in the same room with a salt shaker.

STOP-ROT treat the cape.

One pound of magnesium sulphate per gallon of water, the mag sul sold as Epsom Salts, three gallons worth.  Add enough of the acids to take the pH down to 5.5-6.0 (you've seen this part of the movie before).  Twenty minutes to an hour in solution depending on temperatures.  Keep the cape swirled.

Pull out and drain.  Light coat of STOP-ROT over that.  Let it sit for at least an hour, then rub on a coat of Cam-L-C and freeze for at least three weeks.

It should produce a lot of water at thawing time.  Once that cycle is through, shave it out for mounting.  You'll have to play it by eye and feel as to whether or not another thin coat of Cam-L-C will be needed.

For longevity testing, hang some pieces outside in a tree along with a piece of green hide and other pieces from different tanning systems.

I'm sure you've already grasped the concept of ridding both cellular and extra-cellular fluids while not damaging naturally resistant skin structures.

Other structures that I feel are of importance are the pigments around the cell bubbles of the hollow section of deer hair.  The wrong acid can eat these pigment off regardless.  That can produce that "dead, dry hair" look pretty quick, or cause oils to want to stick to the hair just a little too much.

I've added a couple of photos for those that don't know about hair cell bubbles.  These cells, or bubbles, are the walls around the hollow part of deer hair.  Where these bubbles comes together, there is a pigment structure.  It not only imparts part of the coat color, but appears to add some structural strength also.  Removing it is what I see as kinda like removing the mortar from brick or block.

The lighting I have to use to photograph with (strong back lighting) doesn't show the pigment colors worth a darn, but at least you can see where they go.

When a guy is looking down through a microscope, there's no tellin's what is going to be seen.  The third photo is where all of a sudden I had something looking back up at me.  Scared the dog mud out of me, I'd never seen any thing like it.  If some one can identify, I would appreciate it.


* Cell bubbles 1.jpg (19.61 KB, 314x291 - viewed 352 times.)

* Cell bubbles 2.jpg (23.97 KB, 354x364 - viewed 347 times.)

* Magnified 2000 x.jpg (12.56 KB, 167x167 - viewed 338 times.)
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jrosbor
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« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2006, 04:06:11 PM »

God I hate the idea of trying to write this while looking at some fool upside down!
Ya know... I think I sent some pix of skin samples that were tanned with MgSO4.  I even had them set up with dif pH's to check the time it takes for the Mag to fix to the collagen.  I ran them at 0.5 pH intervals.  Mind you I am looking at a publication that states "This theory is implied mainly by tanning actions at various pH's.  Tanning action increases as pH increases, and no tanning occurs at all when all CO2 groups of the collagen molecules are protonated."  I know for a fact that fixation occurred at 12hrs on the nuts for five of the samples I had!  The ranges were 3-5.  Why did I toss this out?  Could not get any oil to penetrate the skin and had a major lack of stretch.  When I did notice the fixation at that wide of a range I also figured that this would leach out over time and could be a cause for acid rot.

BTW,  I have a few "play capes & hides" on hand right now and I will have a ton more in a few days.  Still have over half the bottle of acid left (when I found out how much it costs, I stooped playing with it)

More to come!

Where did "T" go?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2006, 04:20:17 PM by jrosbor » Report to moderator   Logged

Joe
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