Pike cull (pics)
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Eddie uk
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« on: October 30, 2007, 09:21:12 AM »

sorry guys all pics had to be removed to many complaints to the place where im studying
« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 08:01:34 AM by Eddie uk » Logged
TrailsEnd
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2007, 09:51:09 AM »

looks like you got a couple Tiger muskies as well too, unless it's just the picture.
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Eddie uk
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2007, 11:10:43 AM »

im in the uk we dont get muskies at all

we only get wat you yanks call northern pike

shame but had to be done
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lorefuma
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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2007, 11:13:06 AM »

The pure blood Italian northern pike looks close in livrea at your tiger, like some ones in the pics, rare fish in this days, too many captive breded pike in ours water.  :-\
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Eddie uk
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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2007, 11:25:50 AM »

nah dont think the river had ever been stocked with pike

stocked with lots of browns but they activly seek to get rid of the pike, though there were more big chub then pike (enviroment agency said we could only take pike) which to be honest would do more damage to junivvle trout then the pike with the numbers there were of them
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PACGB
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2007, 05:49:46 AM »

We're a club which has campaigned for the conservation of pike for the last 30 years.

In that time, we have seen the consequences of culls like this, which almost invariably achieve nothing other than to disrupt the natural balance of a water.

All you end up with is an increased number of small pike which will predate even more on your juvenile trout.

The larger pike in that river will do an effective job of keeping their own kind under control.

You state pike were not stocked. It's a tributary of the Thames, and so pike will inevitably find their way into the water again.

You may find these links helpful - they look at some of the scientific studies carried on on the subject of pike culls:

Pike in Your Waters http://www.pacgb.co.uk/pdfs/pikeinyourwaters.pdf examines the role pike play and the impact of culls.

Pike Culls - The Truth http://www.pacgb.co.uk/aboutpike/culls.html


Pike Culls - A Review of Scientific Evidence http://www.pacgb.co.uk/aboutpike/cullsbb.html

Pike Culls - The Effects of Pike Removal http://www.pacgb.co.uk/aboutpike/cullssyn.html

Kind Regards,

Chris Bishop
Pike Anglers Club of Great Britain www.pacgb.com
« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 06:17:49 AM by PACGB » Logged
Cecil
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2007, 09:05:53 AM »

looks like you got a couple Tiger muskies as well too, unless it's just the picture.

Those are younger pike TrailsEnd. They will have markings like that. Here the ones I see like that are much smaller. Maybe growth is very rapid there.

Additonally a musky has a light backgroud with darker markings. In contrast a northern has a dark background with light markings.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 01:56:06 PM by Cecil » Logged

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Cecil
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2007, 09:07:53 AM »

nah dont think the river had ever been stocked with pike

stocked with lots of browns but they activly seek to get rid of the pike, though there were more big chub then pike (enviroment agency said we could only take pike) which to be honest would do more damage to junivvle trout then the pike with the numbers there were of them

Yes, chub directly compete with trout for the same food supply although the larger browns will eat them. I've seen them ruin some beautiful brook trout ponds in Maine because some idiot was using them for bait illegally.

Thanks for the pictures Ed.
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TrailsEnd
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2007, 11:06:29 AM »

looks like you got a couple Tiger muskies as well too, unless it's just the picture.

Those are younger pike TrailsEnd. They will have markings like that. Here the ones I see like that are much smaller. Maybe growth is very rapid there.
Yeah Cecil, I've seen very small pike in my area that looked like that. But they were only 7 inches long. Wish I could get a big one like that.
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John C
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2007, 02:14:49 PM »

I dont buy the bs about culling to help the trout, hell I live to trout fish   most weekends I go for a full day float trip trout fishing White River. BUt I love pike fishing too. There is a natural equal balance that can be reached and the culling undermines nature.

As for color of the pike and markings thats bull crap too. I have seen   those markings on gish in the Rhine Mein Donhoue canal to the old King canal in middle Bavaria alnod withe th upper mein and the lakes of Graphennwher. Almost everywhere in Europe I have caught pike I have found fish with those markings. They like other fish species have a variity of colors and markings from the same waters.

I have never caught pike in Italy or Spain and a few other contries but have in most of Central Europe and many states in America and Canada.

Colors varie from fish to fish.
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Jknuth
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2007, 03:50:26 PM »

There is also work being done to genetically determine weather European Pike are a distinct species or not.
There are a few physical differences as well as behavioral differences between the two. One of those differences is the European pike have a higher rate of retention of juvenile patterns (barring) then New world Pike, as well as attaining a larger mass for their length.
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Cecil
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2007, 06:22:00 PM »

I dont buy the bs about culling to help the trout, hell I live to trout fish   most weekends I go for a full day float trip trout fishing White River. BUt I love pike fishing too. There is a natural equal balance that can be reached and the culling undermines nature.

As for color of the pike and markings thats bull crap too. I have seen   those markings on gish in the Rhine Mein Donhoue canal to the old King canal in middle Bavaria alnod withe th upper mein and the lakes of Graphennwher. Almost everywhere in Europe I have caught pike I have found fish with those markings. They like other fish species have a variity of colors and markings from the same waters.

I have never caught pike in Italy or Spain and a few other contries but have in most of Central Europe and many states in America and Canada.

Colors varie from fish to fish.

I stand by what I say John and I too have fished in Europe including the Rhine. My mother is from a town right on the Rhine. I've seen young Canadian pike like that and I've seen young ones around here like that. I've never seen a mature pike with markings like that.

As far as pike coexising with trout I'll bet you'd be the first to cry bloody murder if some idiot introduced them into the White. Once they are introduced they are there forever. If given a choice they will go after a soft rayed fish. The biggest pike in my area are found in the lakes that are stocked with trout or have cisco. It's no coincidence.

I'm all for the coexistence of species but not where they are not native. Brook trout are getting hammered by pike and yellow perch in northern New England where the pike and yellow perch is not native.
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Beefster
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2007, 09:35:46 AM »

The point is that Pike are nuturally found in this water, it being a tributary of the Thames. They have not been introduced thus destroying the eco balance in the way you imply. The trout where there too, coexisting naturally long before fishing clubs came along. Try fly fishing for the pike too..... great fun.
We have seen local lakes wiped out by over night netsmen and immigrants poaching to eat. Are you sure its the pike eating your trout? It would be interesting to see the numbers and sizes of all species caught and the size and condition of the waterway. It hardly sounds over run by pike from what has been said.
The total removal of a natural predator from any environment will lead to problems not least the river being over run by juvinile's of the same species as previously mentioned.
The original poster even states that the chub cause more of a problem in his opinion........ so why kill the pike? (chub on a fly are fun to cathch too...... If you have a legal right to take a few to eat I can understand that but but would argue against killing for killing sake. Why cull at all in this situation? Consult with the environment agency and clubs like the PACGB and move them to another stretch of water or better still leave them be. Very short sited approach in my opinion and i am suprised the environment agency agreed to a total cull at all?
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Cecil
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2007, 12:57:51 PM »

Good points Beefster.

But you're surprised the environmental agency agreed to a culling? You should see some of the blunders they have made and do make over here! Some of them boggle the mind!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2007, 01:17:08 PM by Cecil » Logged

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Beefster
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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2007, 12:17:33 PM »

Point taken. It has been pointed out to me that removing the pike and dropping them, as a top of the tree predator, into another stretch of water would also cause problems so maybe more thought went into the population control than is evident from the original post. or than i thought anyway.
Apparently..... from the club who run this strech of water's web site........ a survey was carried out recently (i assume after the cull) and the cull was deemed to be ineffective. The stretch suffers from poor spawning beds, poachers and predation by the usual suspects. This will include the trout stocked by the club, chub and Pike. They stock 300 Brownies a year which will obviously munch on the fry without hesitation too.....  Seems odd they would stock one predator but victimise another? Per

Things are a changing re. Trout water managment and the recognition of the imbalances caused by culls and the addition of a high protein food source (the trout) into areas not previously inhabited by them, but some clubs remain blinkered. I attended a very interesting presentation on just such a subject last night and there is a lot to be learnt still.

This was a short sighted cull undertaken by a short sighted club in my opinion and when the explosion of mini pike starts eating through the trout fry over the next 5 years the cry of "We told you so" will be very loud I think.
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