Am I the only one who dislikes the new skin on McKenzie forms?

[Matt]

Bill, you hit the nail on the head, I had the same thing happen, and I am in business to make my customers happy. Happy customers keep coming back and that pays the bills and brings more customers!

[George Roof]

Bill, Matt, then I'm happy your customers are happy, but that still doesn't say anything about the facts.  I told you, the guy with the bug eyed, forward looking deer down the road has his customers who agree with him also.  Do what you need to do to get cash in your bank account, but since the first European landed on this continent, the whitetailed deer has ALWAYS had the word "delicate" used as its features.  And like I said, I'd just love to see you mount ONE deer using the real skull and jawbone and see how great that looks and how silly your argument is.  I'm also glad that Hilton has his following, but I really wonder about where the #2 came from.  I know tons of people who use Joe Coombs forms and its hilarious to hear what's being written here about McKenzie with their "southern, petite" deer forms while Joe Coombs is in the deep south Gulf region.  IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, you guys are full of crap.  There's been absolutely no discussion about Reasearch's "First Honest Whitetail" or Van Dykes line of forms here.  Just simple McKenzie bias and McKenzie bashing - plain and simple.

[Ted Befus]

I put my Saskatchewan Whitetails on McKenzie forms.   They don't look retarted to me or my customers.  There are alot of Canadian deer mounted on them.  IF you don't like the face, that's what clay is for!

[bill@hogheaven]

Im sure a lot of suppliers wish I had as much bias towards them, then maybe I would be spending as much with them as I do McKenzie. While Im getting ready to do a deer on a 2x4 you get a bunch of plastaline & sculpt an anotomicly correct form as I have. You continue to tout 48 years experience, but I doubt what you were doing at age 12 was any more taxidermy than what I was doing at age 9 painting a turtle shell with paint by number paints. Continue on with your one size fits all mentality. what stops a sculptor living in one area of the country from sculpting for a subspecies elsewhere?
Since boars are not native to N.Y. must be im sculpting imaginary boars? This post started about foam skin, which by the way I dont have a problem with. How it got to be a bias thing in your mind is beyond me. You can put me on record as not liking research forms any better than McKenzies if it matters to you. Also the HD series by McKenzie is going to get a lot use here but it is the only one that will. Who appointed you the gaurdian of McKenzies reputation & as for no 2nds or voids It is rare really rare to get a shipment of boar forms that hasent at least one form with the muzzle glued back on & sometimes they even pick all the pieces off the floor & glue it back whole again. Vois are so commonplace they dont even rate a mention. Im surprised to find you have room for an opinion since you are so full of crap. Time now for more George psychobabble to begin.

[George Roof]

Bill, now that's a crop of crap as well.  I don't know as I've ever "touted" 48 years of experience.  When I was 12, I was mounting squirrels, birds, and occasional bobcat or two, foxes and a deer or two.  They all looked like crap (and not a whole lot better 48 years later I might add), but this discussion is exactly the type thing me and my buddies grew up with when we talked cars.  My family was a Chevy family and one guy's was Dodge while the others were Fords.  It was a constant squabble about how the other didn't know how to change the oil in the car much less design one that was "good".  YOu won't ever convince me and thousands of others that this "subspecies" crap carries any water.  It's personal perception, otherwise we'd have a supply company in Arizona doing Coues and one in northern Montana doing Canadian "subspecies".  I certainly don't do hogs to the level you do, but I do recall your son Rob and me competing and the judges only comment was he liked artificial noses better than real ones.  Rick Carter and Mike Noonkester have great manikins, but I've watched Joe Coombs build his and I'd be very hard pressed to say that his wasn't as good or better than the other two.  I guess hogs don't have an "subspecies" but I know a damned feral Berkshire won't fit on a feral "Russian" without a whole lot of detail work regardless of who makes the form.

I'm not the "guardian" of ANY manufacturer any more that you're the guardian of the "subspecies with different genes", but I don't have any problems telling you that psychobabble from me doesn't sound a whole lot different from the bull ship coming from you.  I drive a GMC, what do you drive?

[bw]

There's been absolutely no discussion about Reasearch's "First Honest Whitetail" or Van Dykes line of forms here.  Just simple McKenzie bias and McKenzie bashing - plain and simple.

Nobody brought up the other companies because I had a question about McKenzies foam.  If Research or VanDykes have the same rough skin on their new mannikens then you can lump them into this argument as well.  That was what it originally started as.  Remember, a discussion about the foam?

I dont like thier mannikens any better than McKenzies.

George, you were the first to bash McKenzie when you drug out your peeves with the hanger system.

[Matt]

Do what ever I need to to get money in my bank account? You know what that is George? I give my customers a top quality mount that speaks for itself, pride myself in my work, and never being satisfied with my work. Maybe you don't know what that is or you are so wrap up in 2x4 deer forms that quality and accuracy are not in your vocabulary! I'm done with this , we could go on and on, and George, I drive a ford!

[bill@hogheaven]

George.... I think you prove my point about geographicaldifferences. Either of Ricks lines will fit a certain type of hog, same with Mike & joes, with a rasp their forms expand to fot a model they werent sculpting. I have used them all. In fact Joe was getting measurements from us to use, then he got off in a different direction & didnt come up with the form we were looking for. Now we are not going to argue breeds of so called russians or euros. At least Im not. We get a strain of hogs from a local preserve, raised in Saskatchewan that are " gaurenteed" at least 7/8 purebred ruskys.
What they in fact are is debatable. But these hogs all look the same, long snout, very narrow head
we have recorded 15 skull measurements on dozens of these hogs & they are virtually identical withen an eye to nose class. All the 9en are the same ,the 10en thesame . Based on this I conclude the breeding (whatever it is) is the same on all of them. A sub-species of pigs. We get a ton of these from hunting presreves from all over. Boy my fingers cant see the keyboard very well this am.
So we did carcass casts on a few of these hogs (casulties) for the basis of our form. At last a form that actually fits these hogs without choppong a form up. There arent enough hours in my day ( I have a short day ) to ever offer these to the public. But with Ricks, Mikes, Joes & ours you can fit any hog around. Because they arent all the same & neither are deer Do you want to tell Rick Carter his form is all wrong because it doesnt look like a McKenzie HD. Just like the pigs they arent all the same. If you want to stick with they"all can go on the same form" I have some mouflon forms I dont like & will never use, I can send them down to you and you can use them on some of your deer. Mercury Mariner & Ford Ranger cause the ford dealer is 2 miles up the road.

[NickyG]

I love their forms, but I guess we just have to be a little more gentle when prepping the forms, or just use Manniken Prep by Gary Bowen, and eliminate the roughing (scratching)....It does add more cost to your mount, though....Roughly $10.00/can

[George Roof]

Nicky, be careful depending on that stuff.  It's only spray glue and when you use it, the adhesion of your hide to the manikin will never be any stronger than that spray glue.  The hide paste will hold on to IT instead of the glue.  You'd be just as well off to use lacquer thinner to eliminate the mold release and use a good glue straight up.