Repos winning awards Good/Bad?

[Jim Tucker]

Our current rules in Ohio do not allow a reproduction fish to win State Champion.  There is a Best Reproduction Award for both Professional and Masters......there is also a BOC for each.  In order to enter a reproduction in Masters it must be your OWN replica....not a purchased one.

The requirements for winning State Champion Medallions are:

You must enter Masters
You must win a first place and BOC
the "Champion" is picked from the BOC

As Repos are getting more and more accepted it has come up that maybe they should be "eligible" to win.

Now I know we all want to say "of course they should be eligible".....however I would like to hear some arguments FOR and AGAINST.

I am on the fence on this issue.  I think that it COULD be a good idea.......BUT where do we draw the line??  If we allow repos to win should Freeze Dried fish be allowed to win?  Also how can you "prove" that you molded your own repo?

[Old Fart]

Minnesota currently allows the use of commercially produced repos in Professional Division and the only judging is done on the paint job.  Since repos are becoming a larger part of the business every year, I would think that would be acceptable.  Masters Division requires the repo to be an original work by the person entering it. Being an "original", it would seem to me, that it should be eligible for consideration.

[Brian W]

I think it should be a separate catagory noting the gross difference between a skin mount and repro. Good point Jim on the honor system with fabricating the mold by the participant. Same thing goes for freeze-dried. How would you know the participant did the freeze-drying themselves?
   

[GBRUCH]

You already have the rule that the competitor needs to have made their own.  You will need to rely on the integrity and honesty of the competito rjust as you do now. Short of asking to display the mold along with the finished casting you cannot police it - maybe not even then.    However you can rest assured that most commercial replicas would struggle to win a Blue ribbon in the Master Division with most judges--- they simply aren't good enough.  Those that have done both would likely agree with me that molding and casting a BOC fish is at least as challenging as completing one as a skin mount to that level and should be eliigible for any award as a skin mount.

That is my 2 cents 

[FishArt]

My opinion - I think it's a good thing. There's two different levels of talent and difficulty factor here. It takes a different skill-level to cast your own fish as it does to reproduce a skin mount to that standard. With the latter being far more difficult than even a custom cast IMO. Forget about being allowed to enter a purchased blank. It isn't that difficult to simply paint a fish vs. all those things involved with a skin mount. Besides, what's the definition of "taxidermy" Replicas are not taxidermy. Fish Taxidermy is a dying industry and I firmly believe that reproductions and PC thinking have brought much of this on. Let's not dump ammunition onto the fire by promoting replicas so heavily - especially in our taxidermy competitions by allowing repros to compete head-to-head with skin mounts. We're shooting ourselves in the foot when we start saying that repros are BETTER than skin mounts and promoting them so much. Talented skin mount taxidermists are facing extinction and repros will probably be the only form of "taxidermy" in 20-30-50 or so years. It's actually kind've sad to see the industry tank like it has over the last decade or so. I know a lot of folks in rural areas haven't seen much about what I'm talking about. But give it time, it will happen...

[fishstuffer]

should be a separate catagory
i wouldent expect to be a state champion in the game heads with a foam dinosaur head.....
awards yes but not best fish....

[Jknuth]

My view is I support separate categories BUT! Both the Taxidermy and Replica categories need to be held at the same standard as far as judging.

Nothing is more annoying to see replicas judged with the 5 foot rule while skin mounts are picked over with a spyglass!
This supports one thing.  Bad craftsmanship! nothing more nothing less.

I want my replicas looked at through the spyglass if I am going to compete.

I am however against commercial replicas being used in competition. perhaps if there was another separate category for that I could see it.

[Dondi]

My 2 cents....
 I think The Award for "best fish" should go to ....the Best fish. (Skin mount, Custom Repro or Freeze Dried). I absolutely believe that the only Reproduction allowed to compete at any level, should be made by the participant. I also think that anyone entering a reproduction fish should be required to show the molds when they "check in" the repro. mount, either to the judge or a member of the board etc.
 In this manner, skills will be required to either skin mount or mold the fish you are competing with. I'm not sure that you can say one is harder to do than the other. When I see a Professional Div. reproduction get a blue ribbon / BOC for a repro. that they didn't make, in a State competition, I just don't get it. But thats just me...
 Jim, I plan on bringing one of each to the Ohio show in 2009.

[Craig W]

I think there should be seperate categories for skin mount and repros.

[duxdog]

I would have loved to have entered a commercial blank into the MTA this year just to get the experience. At least allowed in the novice category. The associations want more members/people involved so why not make it user friendly. If I wait until I learn how to mold a fish correctly, It may be a long while before I get the experience. SO, yes commercial replicas should be allowed at some level. I would think the replica makers would be all for it. I mean....heck, what a way to advertise.

[Jim Tucker]

I think there should be seperate categories for skin mount and repros.

There ARE seperate categories for SKIN/REPOS

However at this time a reproduction or freezedry specimen cannot win State Champion Fish.....basically Best of Show Fish.

They CAN win:

Best Reproduction
Peoples Choice fish

in fact most awards.

Commercial Blanks can be entered in the Professional Division....but not Masters.

[Jeff Sonner]

If a replica is good enough to win overall fish category it should be held to the same standards as any other fish in thecategory. Thin fins, symmetry, anatomical correctness, composition, balance, proper use of fillers, ect. If a person can take a commercial blank and win BOC in Pro. div. it takes as much or more than a skin mnt. on some blanks. I agree that a masters cat. entry should be done by the entrant. As for proof that the cast was self-molded, could be tough toprove either way. Lots of times the mold is destroyed when removing the casting to prevent breaking undercuts. tough to prove the pieces fit the casting entered. Maybe pics of the process showing bedding to finish cast pull? Whats the difference in entering a full cast or a hybrid skin/cast fish. Same standards to place or win. If your are worried-just create another category. Thats what has happened with the WT cat.

[BMW]

This is a great topic.  Just thinking out loud here...... I agree with Fishart on the definition of taxidermy line of thinking.  Reproductions and skin mounts are entirely different and warrant separate categories.   I also agree that reproductions should be held to the exact standard that a skin would be.  But when it comes down to the end of the night, the "best" overall piece at the show is the "best" whether skin or reproduction or whatever it may be.  Oh and by all means every piece should be done by one's own hand unless there's provisions for commercial blanks at the professional/commercial level.  I think we need to be willing to promote the fish categories (which are in my experience the least attended at most shows) by offering commercial or professional levels of competition with production blanks.  It might just give someone a chance to enter who may not have otherwise.  And hopefully that experience will motivate them to try their hand at something new.  I think that's really the essence of our shows is to promote and develop through education.  Just a few ideas......
BMW

[Cole]

...I agree with Fishart on the definition of taxidermy line of thinking.  Reproductions and skin mounts are entirely different and warrant separate categories...  

They really aren't that different. The head is generally a reproduction no matter what, as well as the fins. The body is the only "skin" left, and some of it is sculpted over. IMO it takes as much work and the same skills to produce high quality skin mounts and replicas both. I would have no problem with a replica winning best of show.

[Monty Artrip]

  Wow, this is a great subject. I totally agree that in Master's the fish should be custom molded. I think that having seperate categories for skin and repros is a great thing and encourages more participation as well as opens up more awards. I do think that skin mount comp fish are starting to fall from favor at the upper levels, at least in my state, and that opens up more possibilities for those who do them.  I enjoy both and will continue competing with both, and can honestly say that it takes an equal amount of skill to win with either.