Rock mix continued

[Mason Creek Taxidermy]

Normally I don't worry about the detail showing up on my rocks however, I now have a decent sized ledge that I built that will hold 2 ducks. I did a lot of carving and adding small junks of foam to get a ton of detail and sharp edges that I lost when I used the McKenzie rock mix tonight. When I have the plaster on the foam the rock looks exactly the way I want it showing all the hours that I spent giving the detail my customer wants. I was able to wash everything off with a hose so I can start over- Lesson learned.

Will the Research Slate material be a better choice or is there something better?

thanks
John

[rnviper3]

i want to know the answer to that too.  i have been toying with molding, but was going to use a method like yours, but couldn't figure out where to start.  if you have pictures of your progress i would love seeing them. 
bob

[George Roof]

John, you lost it because you didn't understand the process.  McKenzie rock mix is absolutely some of the very best, but IT WILL NOT ADHERE TO FOAM.  It has vermiculite, sawdust and perhaps some sand mixed into it along with shredded newspaper.  The foam itself offers no "tooth" for it to adhere to.  In order for your foam to accept rock mix, you MUST coat the foam with plaster of Paris.  Mix some plaster of Paris to a thin consistency but still thick enough to adhere. WEAR RUBBER GLOVES!!!  Dip the rocks in it and allow the plaster to grab into the nooks and crannies of the foam.  Set them on a sheet of plastic and allow them to dry.  (Note:  you're working against the clock on plaster of Paris, so have all your "rocks" ready to go when you mix it.  Don't be taking any breaks because when it hardens, it happens fast and you're DONE.)    NOW you can mix up the McKenzie rock mix.  Mix it into an oatmeal consistency and just make mudpies on the plaster covered rocks.  Set them on the plastic to cure.

When you're done, there's a great way to color them.  Get 4 ounces of waterbased black and 4 ounces of water based transpar green.  Mix each in a 1 quart spray bottle filled with water.  Take them outside or place them on a large sheet of plastic.  Spray them with the black first.  You can do it heavy or light.  It will bead up regardless and give the "rock" a granite speckled appearance.  Then lightly mist the green randomly over the "rocks".  This gives them a algae appearance. 

Someplace on here I have a picture of a Stone sheep pedestal I mounted.  You can see the small softball sized "rocks" that I just tossed around to give the mountainous appearance.  The more the better.

[Uncle Harley]

George I think you missed his question  he get the SHARP edge detail that he wants with the plaster coat but looses it once the rock mix is applied.  It a good question and I'm curious myself.

[George Roof]

Harley, same answer.  Look at that bear.  Those are two rock shards with the blueberries growing in between them.  They are both knife edged as if the rock split.  Now those rocks were made with chickenwire and burlap soaked in plaster of Paris, but again, the rock mix won't work without a good "tooth"  If he's building a ledge, I have a grey fox SOMEPLACE on here with that edge being very sharp .  That type of work requires an armature, chicken wire, and landscaping burlap soaked in plaster of Paris.

[BEAVERS]

George will covering the wire mesh with fiberglass matting and resin work as well as the plater of paris?

[Mason Creek Taxidermy]

Thank you all for your feedback.

Well I have to disagree on a few points. I have been successful in putting the McKenzie rock mix on foam with no plaster. Yes it works much better with plaster on it, but it is possible. The coarse mix that I am using will not work to give thedetails that I am looking for by using the mud pie method. Maybe so on a ledge of this size shown in the attached picture but my details are much tighter. I sifted the mix I have last night to get it down to what looked like just a powder and applied some to a small rock. I still was not satisfied with the look.

I spoke with a friend down the road and he stated that the Research "slate" material will give me what I'm looking for. I'll let you know how it works. I need something I can pour or spray on.

What does McKenzie use on the rocks they sell? It almost looks sprayed on and is very tough.

Bob-I'll post some pictures once I reapply the plaster that I ended up washing off.
thanks
John

[George Roof]

The rocks McKenze sells are cast resin - BIG DIFFERENCE.  And no, the rock mix won't stick to fiberglass resin covered armatures.  They are two diametrically different materials.

Bob, I don't know where you're going, but it sounds as if you're looking for finite detail like the Hollyweird guys use.  BUT, they use the green floral foam (rotten foam) and cut and carve it to intricate dimensions, spray it with a poly resin and then paint it. (Like in the original Star Wars).  It is not strong enough for taxidermy applications however. 

The basis of those rock mixes is plaster of Paris, but stand alone plaster of Paris (which you're trying to make it seems) is NOT going to give you anything better than what you have.  The rock mix is intended to used on what I'd call "reasonable" diorama work.

[Tim McLagan]

Get some" Durhams water putty", from Home Depot.. You can mix it very thin, and add color to it.. It drys very hard, and you should be able to keep your detail...  Then add lichen, and paint to the color you are looking for..

[Tim McLagan]

This rock is made with "Durhams water putty" over polyurethane foam..

[Studio106]

Hey John- I personally like the research rock mix over the McKenzie rock mix hands down. I have never had a problem getting the rock mix to adhere to foam as long as I rasp the surface to get rid of any skin (or cut the skin off with a knife in hard to reach places) and give it a tooth to bite to. Just make sure that you blow off the foam dust before applying the mix. I tried some of the McKenzie profesional rock mix again the other night and IMO doesn't have the workability that the Reseach does. Again, that is my opinion. I apply the rock mix to get a surface coverage and go back and dial in the sharp edges if needed with a second coat. Just on the edges where needed, not on the entire rock. It's pretty much all in the technique that I use to apply the mix that gives me the sharp edges. When the rock mix is still soft enough to work, but is starting to set up, that's when I create the sharp edges (otherwise you end up fighting the rock mix too much if it's not set up enough). Regardless of what anyone says, you can get rock mix to adhere to foam. I have been doing it for a long time with no problems. The finer the rock mix, the easier it will be to mantain your edges, but it can also be achieve using the granite mix too. It's all in the technique.

[Matt]

I second that studio106, the research mix is all I use in my shop. I like the sandstone mix, but use the granite on occasion as well.

[billmadelle]

Sounds like you guys are trying to reinvent the wheel. for about $89 bucks you can have a Createk Stone ledge in either grey, brown, sandy brown or any custom color you can think of. The company just completed the Cabela's habitat mountains at Cabela's in East Hartford Conn and Scarborough Maine. Createk was carried by McKenzie prior to McKenzie's attempt to replicate the Createk Patented stones. McKenzies rocks are heavier than the Createk stone which weigh only approx 2.25 pounds per square foot. Take a look at the T-Rex Cafe website for the Disney market palce in Florida to see their latest large scale project on top of the restaurant. A large 3 peak mountain with winter ice and snow. Not to be confused with the stamped concrete that surrounds the exterior base and interior walls.

After McKenzie stopped distributing the Createk Stone I ran into the owner of Createk Al West and began buying factory direct. If anyone needs their info you can email me Billmadelle@aol.com or call (508) 434-0237. Al's father Al Sr. is a worl class taxidermist and has alot of input into every design and feature

[Studio106]

Hey Bill- The Createk stones are sweet looking rocks, but I have a couple of questions for you that you might be able to answer. What are they made of and are they solid or hollow? Seems to me that if I wanted a rock base for a mountain goat to hang on a wall that I would either have to fabricate a back board into the rock or attach the rock(s) to an armerature and blend the rock into the armerature to be able to hang it on a wall. Would I need to get supports inside the rock for the goat to be attached, or is it strong enough to nut down the goat without supports? I like the animals that we mount not to lean, so I would have to do some messing around to get them level. If I needed to put in supports (because I feel a lot better when that Goat that is hanging on a wall 15' high is bolted down to four supports that I know it's not going anywhere) I would have to spend more time doing that. Then again I would have to dial in the feet with rock mix or some other material and color it to match. I'm sure that the prefabbed rocks would match up to the feet exactly on any of the animals we mount (like I can do with plaster/burlap and rock mix), oh I don't know, never? The rocks that you refer to are great in realism and would be great in certain applications, but it sounds like I would have to do too much work on a rock that I am already spending money on to make it cost effective. I can make a custom rock to the size, shape, color and texture that I want easily and much more cost effective. For about the same price as your ledge rock I can buy the materials to create a rock base for anything from a Klipspringer to a Stone sheep. Don't get me wrong, they are beautiful rocks, I just don't see how they can be more cost effective. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, just looking at it logically.

[billmadelle]

Al's father is a taxidermist in Southbridge Mass and has a phone number listed on Dresser Hill Road/ Saundersadale Road. He does all kinds of exotics and African game. He uses many of the standard foam bodies and does not have to modify. The inside of the stones are reinforced with fiberglass. Just screw a piece of plywood or 2x on the inside and your all set. Al's father generally covers the recessed screw heads with an accompanying form of habitat ie/moss etc. The stone material is a patented (Al West Createk Stone) composite.