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Beginners, Training & Tutorials => Tutorials => Topic started by: summitsitter on December 19, 2006, 03:21:17 PM

Title: Deer Skinning -- Splitting the Lips, Nose and Eyes
Post by: summitsitter on December 19, 2006, 03:21:17 PM
I set out this morning to skin and flesh my first whitetail..  The skinning was pretty easy.  Fleshing the cape EASY, but splitting the lips TOTAL HELL.  The is no possible way to get all the red meat outta there.  There's nonthing to skin the meat to.  Your skinning, and skinning red meat back then bam it hits you like the plaque, you just cut though.  I got 3 video but none of them are clear enough to see actual detail in the process.  I got the lips split but just not fleshed.  Am I the only one with this problem..  Even if I could flesh the lips out I honestly beleive it would take 12 hours to do it.  Any body got any pics out this process, or what they are suppose to look like after they are fleshed..       Thank you
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: [email protected] on December 19, 2006, 03:46:51 PM
Maybe you should find another hobby.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: KevinH on December 19, 2006, 03:57:19 PM
I split mine and take all the redmeat off.  I use one of those fleshing balls (ice cream cone looking thing) And put it on the "hair" side and cut all the meat off with my scapel.  You could do it like Gina said but it takes the same amount of time for me either way.  I do the same thing around the eyes and the nose.  Its your first attempt yur arent gonna be speedy at it.  Just keep tryin and it will get faster.  good luck, Kevin
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: John C on December 19, 2006, 03:57:33 PM
Yes, all the red meat must be removed!!! It takes time to learn but if you don't you are leaving a meal for the bugs if you are not tanning.

Then even if you are tanning you will have a bumpy lip line.

So remove the red meat and even thin the skin where there is hair.

Yep it is your first time and for some its the last time, learning to do it correctly, thats why some of us charge more.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Greg Waite on December 19, 2006, 04:10:46 PM
summer - the best way I can tell you is to take a soft rubber ball and place it under the lip. Then as you are turning, get as close to the skin as possible and keep rolling it off. Just keep following the skin and when you reach the end you will know. It's the easiest way I know. IF you can wait a few days, I am getting ready to start another one and I'll be able to post pictures. You should end up with just a thin piece of skin with no meat, or less than a 1/16". From the voice of experience, please join your state taxidermy association, they can get you in touch with someone local who can help you. Best money I ever spent, great friends and leaned a ton from the more experienced members.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: WilliamHansen on December 19, 2006, 06:53:43 PM
I split the lips and then use a skive knife and a fleshing ball to get the red meat off. Be patient, it takes time at first, but once you do a few it gets easier. Be careful, because you can put holes in the hide with this method, also. It takes me about 3 or 4 hours to cape, flesh, and turn lips eyes etc. and I've done about 50 deer in the last two years.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: summitsitter on December 19, 2006, 07:18:15 PM
Bill that just really not what I wanted to hear, but thanks for your 2 cents.  As for the rest of yall thank you for the ideas and methods you use.  I have got an old spike head in the freeze I can pull out and get some more practice on .. That's what I should have done in the 1st place.    Last of all how to I go about joining my state taxidermist asso. I live in Louisiana  Again thanks
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Craig R on December 19, 2006, 07:46:14 PM
I hold the lip with one hand and while applying upward pressure with my fingers, thumb on top rolling the skin towards me as I cut into the meat of the lip with a scalpel. The pressure helps separate it and the fingers guide me so I don't go through and cut myself. A little borax assists with the slipperiness of it all and gives you control. Just go around the entire mouth opening like this. I get it close then use a floor mounted fleshing beam to cut/scrape the lip meat off with the same scalpel. The nostrils and eyes are handled the same way. I have all of an hour and a half in a cape, from skinning to first salting. That's beaming all the meat/fat off the cape, too. 

Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Low T on December 19, 2006, 07:56:33 PM
summitsitter, up to the top , on the right, in the quick links box, click on Conventions, and find your State on that list, there is a phone number there. Dial it.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: summitsitter on December 19, 2006, 08:25:21 PM
I believe if I just has some kinda visual to undestand what it suppose to look like then I could get it.  Just sent LA taxidermist assoc. an email about joining maybe they can help. 
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: KevinH on December 19, 2006, 08:31:40 PM
im done turnin all my lips on everything or Id take a pic to show you.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: booker81 on December 19, 2006, 08:36:41 PM
When i turned my first one, it took me a LONG time. Like all day, with breaks to throw it in the garage to keep it cold. I'm sure I'm going to have some slip to it.

When Mr. T let me watch him turn lips, I saw I had done pretty well, other than I was about a thousand times slower.

I didn't try to take all the meat off in one swoop - just took the big stuff off at first, then worked slowly at the little stuff. Buy the time I was at the end of doing lips, I had a decent system. Too bad it only took me hours to learn.

There's a reason folks pay good taxidermists a pretty penny - this stuff ain't easy! :D
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: GGT on December 19, 2006, 08:42:24 PM
If I remember correctly, the bobcat video from Jan VanH. does a really good job of showing how to split lips, eyes, nostrils. It's not on a WT but the principles are the same. Check out the video.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: summitsitter on December 19, 2006, 08:50:31 PM
I think where my problem started was I just cut inbetween the top and bottom of the lip instead of starting with one or the other.  I ended up with meat on both,  If yall can understand what i'm saying.....Instead of skinning the top fold down to the bottom fold. I jsut cut inbetween them untill I got to the lip edge then when the lip was split i had meat on both instead of just one to get off...still probly doesn't make any cents
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: cremmick on December 19, 2006, 10:24:55 PM
Summitsitter,

I fleshed my first one a few weeks ago, after watching a video from Bill Atkins, and he showed how to split the lips, eyes, and nose very well.  I did what he showed and it went great. He stressed to take your time and remove all the red meat. As far as splitting the lips, it sounds like you have done that pretty good. I had meat on both sides as well, but I just kept working at it untill it was all gone and the lip skin was thin.  He shows to use a scissors for better control, allowing for less error and cutting through skin.  Like everyone else said, use your fingers as a guide and upply pressure to the hair side. Hold your scissors parallel to the skin and start cutting. Let your fingers be your guide as to how much you cut. Just work your way all the way around the lips taking off all the big chunks at first. Then go around additinal times until you have it thinned down. Make sure you leave at least 1/4" of lip skin to tuck into the form. For your first time, I think you will have less error using a scissors vs. a scalpel. A scalpel can be used later on I think once you do a few. You can use a scissors to flesh alot of the face around the eyes and nose as well.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Glen Conley on December 19, 2006, 11:50:37 PM
Summitsitter, do you think we keep photos around just so we can show people what they want to know when they ask?  What do you think this is, taxidermy.net or something?
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: paul e on December 20, 2006, 07:16:51 AM
summitsitter
im in harvey la.
you anywhere close
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: summitsitter on December 20, 2006, 08:08:10 PM
GLen you the MAN.  Thank you.  I was beginning to wonder about the site..lol..  Just those few pics have help me understand alot more than I did before.  You wouldn't happen to have some of those pics on the eyes would ya...


Paul....Harvey is about 5 hours from here I live up by Monroe
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Glen Conley on December 21, 2006, 12:24:51 AM
Summitsitter, I can't believe you would ask for something like that from me.  Do I have eye area close-ups?  What do you think I am, some kind of photographer or something that runs around taking pictures of anything that moves or holds still?
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Glen Conley on December 21, 2006, 12:27:44 AM
I keep telling these guys that cameras and computers are TOOLS, but a lot of 'em are old, and they don't listen.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Glen Conley on December 21, 2006, 12:29:42 AM
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Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Glen Conley on December 21, 2006, 12:31:34 AM
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Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Shortys Beast on December 21, 2006, 12:51:43 AM
Dam YOU are the man i need that THANK YOU the last time i spilt the eye i took it all [ pactice , pactice , pactice ]
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Greg Waite on December 21, 2006, 05:48:58 AM
Thanks Glen. I was wondering how I was gonna do that without 3 hands.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: BUCKS-N-BEARDS LLC on December 21, 2006, 07:49:00 AM
 I get almost all of the meat off but not to worried if a little is left because then it can be taken off as thin as possible by wire wheel!!!! You dont have to get it all off to salt but as time goes by it gets easier to get it all off the first time. I know not everybody has a wire wheel but they need one to thin around the y-cut and the ears, lips and nose and eyes. They are easy to setup and not alot of money. They make alot better mount by thinning the areas that need thinned. Doug
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Glen Conley on December 21, 2006, 11:18:35 AM
Thanks Glen. I was wondering how I was gonna do that without 3 hands.

Greg, put the camera on a tripod, adjust your focus on the subject, set the timer on the camera, grab up your work piece and start to work, and there you are!  Date and time is also automatically recorded on a hidden file, that saves a TON of note taking, and my paper notes have a way of getting lost in the shuffle (literally).
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: kycooner on December 21, 2006, 11:43:45 AM
I use a baseball bat to to stretch the mouth over,split the lips with my scalpel,if all the meat don't come off .put in pickle ,after a day or 2 in pickle ,get out put back on bat and lips are easy to thin,a skife knife helps here.
  saw the handle end off your bat and it works great for fleshing eyes and nostrils.
  ky cooner
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: summitsitter on December 21, 2006, 03:14:33 PM
Again Glen Thanks
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: oldterryr on December 22, 2006, 01:06:55 AM
summit it just takes practice and as you have been told there are as many ways as there are taxidermists - i split and then take flesh off with wirewheel - i have a friend that does all splitting on wirewheel - i have another taxi friend that does everything with a havel scalpel and have seen him do it all start to finish in 20 minutes - i have seen him do it 4 times and everytime i see it i still dont believe it can be done - practice makes (almost) perfect
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: summitsitter on December 23, 2006, 11:42:37 AM
Terry what kinda wire wheel are we talking about here..Like the one you use on a grinder or what..
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: [email protected] on December 26, 2006, 03:54:02 PM
Summit, this may help you more than my first post. dont worry to much about getting all that meat off. After it is pickled it will stiffen up & be much easier to remove. Lots of methods have offered here, heres another gring it off with a dremel & a sanding drum. Works great for thinning all the facial areas. Good luck.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: summitsitter on December 26, 2006, 04:53:39 PM
Thanks BIll I got a dremel for christmas I'll try that...Also Tim thanks for the link it really helped
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Roadkill on December 27, 2006, 12:48:17 PM
Use a skinning bulb, It is a round ball shapped tool that is usually a cone shape in the other end, which helps in doing around the eyes and nose holes. You put the round part upder the skin on the fur side, and then pull it around it tightly. Some peopel actually pin in there as well. Then you can finly slice of  the meat and still be able to feel the skin under the blade. It take alot of practice to be able to do it without cutting. Untill then, you must learn how to fix the holes. You can use thin pieces of extra skin from the lips to supper glue the holes back together or sew them or a combination of both.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Glen Conley on December 29, 2006, 10:32:35 AM
Probably many of you have recognized the flesh side of the cape you have been looking at as being a little "weird, or different".  These photos were taken a few years ago and are of the very first deer cape that the STOP-ROT formulation as it is today was used on.  When I'm in R & D mode, I go over every square inch of a cape with hand tools.  By the time I do that I KNOW what is going on with that particular cape in regards to chemical responses.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Glen Conley on December 29, 2006, 10:34:05 AM
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Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Glen Conley on December 29, 2006, 10:36:21 AM
I thought there would be a photo of the backside of the ready to mount nose pad in this series, but I guess I thought wrong.

I show a view of a fleshed pad ready for salting, and the next shot I had was of the same nose pad after two days in the pickle.

The pickled pad will be shaved down to the point that the black of the backside of the nose pad is showing through in a uniform fashion.  The little pieces of cartilage on the nostril skin gets removed, and all the whitish/tannish stuff gets shaved off to the point where the backside of the skin can be seen.

The length of the nostril skin is a matter of personal preference and an individual's finishing techniques.  What has worked best for me is to carve out the nose on the form, install the septums, and then use Apoxy Sculpt to do inner nostril detail.  I only leave about an 1/8" - 3/16" of hairless nostril skin to tuck.  Once dry, I come back in and make the transition from skin to nostril detail with more Apoxy Sculpt, and finish.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Glen Conley on December 29, 2006, 10:39:06 AM
The chin/bottom lip shot shows 2 days in the pickle, and ready to be shaved off.  This area, and the muzzle seems to be the areas that give most a hard time.  The meat is going to pickle, and it will mount up, BUT it will shrink and dry and pucker and other undesireables, so just shave everything off down to the skin as you see.  What ever works for you to get it off is fair. 

I've seen a number of posts on here regarding using dirty stock salt in a pickle.  What you are seeing is a cape that was pickled in dirty stock salt.  All the dirty streaks shave right off, and it doesn't seem to affect the final product what so ever.
Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Glen Conley on December 29, 2006, 03:00:27 PM
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Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Glen Conley on December 29, 2006, 03:01:41 PM
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Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: Glen Conley on December 29, 2006, 03:02:41 PM
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Title: Re: Where it all FELL APART
Post by: bowhunterq2xl on December 29, 2006, 03:13:41 PM
Great pics for the beginners, Glen. Wish I'd had those when I started out!
Title: Re: Deer Skinning -- Splitting the Lips, Nose and Eyes
Post by: Birdman01 on August 02, 2008, 02:15:08 AM
i use a old light bulb under the nose it works to
Title: Re: Deer Skinning -- Splitting the Lips, Nose and Eyes
Post by: teddybaham on December 09, 2008, 07:22:47 PM
If I remember correctly, the bobcat video from Jan VanH. does a really good job of showing how to split lips, eyes, nostrils. It's not on a WT but the principles are the same. Check out the video.
yep, and fleshing those thin spots i use some sciccors, a little safer in my little experience, im a little aggressice with a blade some times.
Title: Re: Deer Skinning -- Splitting the Lips, Nose and Eyes
Post by: Ihntdeer on December 10, 2008, 01:27:43 PM
There are some videos on youtube
Title: Re: Deer Skinning -- Splitting the Lips, Nose and Eyes
Post by: hunterray2002 on December 21, 2008, 12:59:00 AM
and there is a few dvd's out as well on the fleshing process useing the Benchgrinder , with the wirewheel and also the stone wheel.



Title: Re: Deer Skinning -- Splitting the Lips, Nose and Eyes
Post by: ltcatfish on December 21, 2008, 01:01:59 AM
my son shot a buck and wants to get head mounted,should he freeze the head?
Title: Re: Deer Skinning -- Splitting the Lips, Nose and Eyes
Post by: John C on December 21, 2008, 07:43:42 AM
Skin from behind the shoulder, tubing forward like pulling a sock off then svere the muscle tissue as near the ears as possible.

Dont roll the cape up on the head into a ball, leave it loosly so it will freeze faster and put the head in the freezer in a plastic bag.