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bulldawg
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« on: January 15, 2009, 12:46:01 AM »

Not meaning to begin a fight or a long winded debate about using gas or dawn for degreasing birds but wondering if anyone uses other degreasers that the suppliers sell.......for example, "epo grip or poly transpar".??
 
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Northern Wings
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2009, 02:05:58 AM »

All you need is Dawn.


-northern wings
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RDA
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2009, 02:14:22 AM »

white gas and dawn... ::) ::) ;D ;D
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2wbdft
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2009, 08:27:44 AM »

 :-X... :D ;)
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JonHarleTX
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Ya'll hear that. George just signed in. Quick Hide

« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2009, 09:00:59 AM »

Just dawn.. if I get something REALLY REALLY NASTY like a goose that wont quit or a some other fowl with a hamburger complex, I might consider a gas bath during the final stages of the washing process..  But not as a general rule.

I like my money.. and see no reason to give it away.

Jon~
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Jay Parke aka idbatman
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2009, 09:13:26 AM »

I have been putting a 1/2 cap full of Grease Buster in the Dawn wash on really fat waterfowl, geese , swans. I think it really helps.
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Jhawk
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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2009, 09:31:17 AM »

I've been mounting birds for over 20 yrs and have used solvents,coleman fuel,gas and commercial greasers. I thought you had to use these to "degrease" and to quicken the drying process. Wrong! I work with upland birds to "greasy Canada's" and now all I use is Dawn. I may wash the big waterfowl twice and let them soak a little longer. Rinse them until the water is clean and you are ready to dry. The end result is just as good if not better! Plus, water/Dawn won't burn your building down or put you in a hospital.
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Doty-Taxidermy
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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2009, 12:17:23 PM »

I had been using straight up dawn, but last week I mixed an equal amount of Lysol household soap (yellow in a 40 oz. bottle or so). The Lysol seems to help with the degreasing and it makes rinsing the dawn soap out much easier. I still use straight up dawn though when I run out of Lysol!
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mark11
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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2009, 01:58:46 PM »

either way is more personal preference than anything else, i have done both. degreasers work when used right but don't fall into thinking they are the TRICK in getting your birds clean, and you can't just use it over and over without replacing it. a poorly fleshed and washed bird will come out of a bucket of degreaser still a poorly fleshed and washed bird, a properly fleshed one will come out of a sink of dawn and plain water just as clean and degreased as with the chemicals, the most important step is in getting the skin fleshed and clean of all fat and meat before it goes into the washing/degreasing steps, markw
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RDA
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2009, 02:12:51 PM »

well  although I shouldnt,  I cant resist....   To all dawn only users          PALEEZE  tell me  whats in the bottom of this container...




Ok,  Ill tell you....This is from a comon golden eye  that had hardly ANY fat...  It was wheeled  then washed TWICE  in dawn.   After which it was soaked in white gas for fifteen minutes.  As you can plainly see, there is quite an amount of fats grease and/or lipids  that have been disolved by the gas.  Even the layer of outer epidermis has oils.  The feathers all have preening oils as well  distibuted by the bird from his oil glands at the tail.   If you wash ONLY IN DAWN,   this is what will remain in your bird skin................Now, is this enough to leak out onto the plumage after mounting???  Maybe  --mayb not....Is it enough to possibly encourage a bug problem down the road???  A definite maybe.....
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NEVADA WILDLIFE STUDIO

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mark11
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2009, 02:49:55 PM »

all those definate possiblities RDA, the only way around all of the definate possibilities is to remove all of the feathers and reattach to an artificial skin of some sort, but then it is still a definate possibility something out there will take a liking to the feathers, i once injected the feet of a woodduck with masters blend and the webbing with formaldihyde and had a dermestid beetle eat the webbing, i know what did it because it was laying there dead, but still ate it. all of that gunk in the bottom is nice to see get pulled out of a skin as an extra precausion but that same gunk also builds up in the degreasrer nomatter how well you think you have strained it and can and does start to redeposit on the next skins soaked in it, as was said earlier, chemical degreasers are a personal preference, although the pros and cons could be argued endlessly, it still holds true that they are not the answer to magically melt away poor skin prep, nothing more nothing less. the only sure fire protection against any form of damage from living pests is to hermetically seal the mount inside a metal or other synthetic material, wood rots or gets eaten and glass is porous and will eventually allow air in that can carry some form of bacteria, and again not worth argueing over whois right and who is wrong, i have been at this for 30+ years and the difference between grease seapage or not has ALWAYS been because of poorly prepped skin and not the difference between chemical degreaser or dawn.
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RDA
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2009, 03:27:21 PM »

Well  Mark,     ;D  Im in year 39 as well.....And the experiment still shows the proof  of a further degreased skin.......The evidence is clear.  The residuals you speak of are not there, as you don't reuse the heavily stained portion of gas,  and the tumble further removes traces of oils/ grease...As I said already,,,  the picture is worth ten thousand gas or no gas threads..... ;) ;D  And,  might I add,,,  that MOST  of the TOP  names in bird work use this process as well...... :D ;)
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Versa Max
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2009, 04:07:13 PM »

I have only been at this for 10 years, but here is my two cents worth.......LOL

I do the the Dawn and Lacquer thinner method.  I like lacquer thinner because is dries faster than white gas.

As previously mentioned, and everyone will agree, that nothing replaces properly fleshing and washing your birds.

I totally understand where Ron is coming from.  I have the same thing in the bottom of my lacquer soakings also.  Yes, it does get a little more of the fat out and also a lot of that is water also.

Ron - put your little tub of goo, you are pointing to, in the freezer for the day.  The fat will be jelled up real nice and the water will be solid.  This will give you a good idea of the fat to water content.  Then you can scoop the fat and water out and get more uses out of your white gas.

I have experimented with Epo-Grip Degreaser.  This stuff is awesome to say the least.  8 oz to 2 gallons of water will allow for about 15 birds.  If you leave the skin in too long you will not have a skin left.

I use this stuff to clean up my turkey deep fryer.  I pour a little of this in the pot with the baked on goo in the bottom and in about 5 minutes the Epo-Grip has eaten it all away.  It is on the pricey side and you can achieve the same results with a good flesh and wash job.
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RDA
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2009, 04:30:33 PM »

Hey Skip!! :D  Laquer does work well,  but Ive notices the skin is a bit more rubbery  and the neck areas become difficult to get the right taxi on  at least in the uplands...The epo grip stuff  well  as you say  dont leave a skin too long! ::)  All in all   you can not beat a solvent action...And Before George chimes in,,,,, ;D  no,  I dont use it on mammals  mostly due to non-compatabilities with tans...... :D ;D ;D
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NEVADA WILDLIFE STUDIO

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In HONOR of Mr SIMON T. BLACKSHAW, ARTIST SUPREME!  1957-2011
mark11
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Location: mt gilead, ohio
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2009, 04:47:41 PM »

for the sake of this not going on forever, RDA i concede, you win, we can agree to just disagree, skip we can agree to agree as to the breakdown of all that goo
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