never ever thought about taking a ph reading of the hide.
I'll do it that way from now on...thanks for the tips.I noticed in another post concerning Lutan F that the guy using that method had an aquarium pump type thing that he used to keep the water moving.Would there be any benefit of having one for a neutralizing bucket?Or even in the pickle for that matter?just curious as I've read that agitation is one of the key components that old shaver has mentioned...just wondering about scaling it down for a home tanner.
I am one of the guilty ones when it comes to a very low PH. I try to keep it at 1 at all times or at least start off like that. When it comes to neutralizing I realize the 20 minute soak is not going to cut it. I go for an hour or more on deer hides and almost use a whole box of soda doing it. As far as salt I add a pound and a half per gallon of acid. I also keep my pickle solutions at a temp of almost 70 degree's if I can. What blows my mind when using Lutan F, is that they want the hide at a PH level of 5 to 6 before you place it in the tan. I get freaky when I approach those numbers. But it all turns out good and my tanning success is up there.
Quote from: cyclone on December 22, 2009, 11:26:30 PMQuote from: oldshaver on December 22, 2009, 07:57:33 PMNow, did a few of you understand this? If so, how much more acidic is a pickle, with a PH of 1.5, than a pickle with a PH of 2?OOH, ME! ME! Pick me OS! (waiving hand furiously)...Just havin fun OS... the correct answer is: The difference in the amount of acidic protons (H+) or hydrogen ions between a pickle of pH 1.5 and pH 2 would be 5X. For each 1 pH unit of variance there is a 10 fold difference in acidic protons in solution.This gets more complicated with different acids, however...(fodder for another topic)OS I would assume that tanneries neutralize entire batches of pickle with hides included. For us home bucket tanners, at least for those like me that re-use pickles, a lesser amount of bicarb is needed to neutralize just one cape when you pull it and put it into another bucket. Somewhere along the home tanning historic time line someone had to come up with a "fool proof" way to neutralize acids. That recipe works well if you have the exact conditions that the formulator had when they derived it. What they didn't take into consideration is how much acid is used up by the hide, how differences in the ways hides are handled can affect the pH of a solution, how any water other than pure distilled water affects the initial pH of the solution. Collagen, the basic foundation of hides, has a very complicated structure. While acid helps to protect some chemical groups from falling apart, it can destroy other bonds. Salt comes into play to help protect those bonds. There is a fuzzy line between just the right mixtures. Too much acid yields a rubbery hide, Too much salt, plastic-like consistencies. George, you're exactly right in doing it that way for bucket tanning. I know I don't have to tell you this but it is your decades of experiences that guide you..You've done it more than most here..Craigjw...why not figure how much total acid you've added with this batch and start out with that much acid for the next batch...adjust your starting formula...You shouldn't see those big fluctuations. Gotta run, Santa's calling, more later....
Quote from: oldshaver on December 22, 2009, 07:57:33 PMNow, did a few of you understand this? If so, how much more acidic is a pickle, with a PH of 1.5, than a pickle with a PH of 2?OOH, ME! ME! Pick me OS! (waiving hand furiously)...
Now, did a few of you understand this? If so, how much more acidic is a pickle, with a PH of 1.5, than a pickle with a PH of 2?
Whats the best acid to use, strong or weak. I have used citric and safety acid. I use only safety acid now, it seems like a weak acid and easier to neurtalize. So is it good to be easy to neutralize?
I was also wondering of ill effects of neutralizing for too long if left in too long will the ph get high enough to cause any problemsI just assumed this was the key to the time frames always given in the instructions