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Taxidermy.Net Forum  |  Taxidermy Discussion Categories  |  Tanning  |  Topic: tanning with lutan f « previous next »
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Author Topic: tanning with lutan f  (Read 2944 times)
timstaxidermy
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Posts: 112

« on: February 25, 2012, 11:53:46 PM »

  hi everyone, just printed off a tanning procedures listing from the forums on lutan.
   noticed it said to use 10% lutan f and 1% bascal s
   and 1%  sodium formate also. what is sodium formate???
   never seen it listed or added in anyones formulas for using lutan before.
   is something ready available under a different name perhaps..
   This listing is sure conflusion as it states a formula 2 and 3 and no formula 1 on it.
    no mentions of pickling at all.
     any ideas out there??
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navajo
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Location: Utah
Posts: 296


« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2012, 12:13:07 AM »

http://www.vandykestaxidermy.com/Lutan-F-Tan-W130.aspx    thats how I have always done it.

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Keyda81
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I'd rather be weird than normal

« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2012, 12:53:34 AM »

http://www.vandykestaxidermy.com/Lutan-F-Tan-W130.aspx    thats how I have always done it.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

X2.  I follow the exact same instructions.  Haven't had any problems.  I've only tanned a few squirrel, deer and coyote tails, and one deer cape though. 
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My deer mobile "Emerald" and my baby "Race"
taxidermyfun
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Location: Iowa
Posts: 135


« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2012, 01:44:24 AM »

I to have followed these instructions with great results. I have also followed the instructions on the container of lutan f from McKenzie that goes by weight. both work great. I have pulled on hair and skin hard, the hair sets very well. I am very pleased with this tan.
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nts2010
Silver Member
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Location: Victoria / Australia
Posts: 269


« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2012, 02:00:23 AM »

Before posting instructions from suppliers , could you please check with someone with a chemistry background as to wether you are posting the correct info ! This subject has been discussed MANY times so try using the search function !
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muscle20
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Posts: 1329


« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2012, 02:00:27 PM »

       Sodium formate HCOONa is used as a buffering agent, do not have to worry about using it in your lutan tanning process, use a pickle in the process and put enough acid in the pickle to maintain at a pH of 2.0 or lower.
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navajo
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Location: Utah
Posts: 296


« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2012, 02:50:58 PM »

Poor miserable nts.  The guy wanted some help so I gave him an answer along with a few others. Then you have to come along and put your two cents in. what did you accomplish? Nothing. So shut up. People that are new don't no what has been covered. he said he did a search and couldn't find what he needed to know. Why spend hours searching when someone can answer your question?  Why do people on here get so mad when a new person asks for help? Can't you just think to yourself "hum thats been covered" and read past it. Or if you know where it is covered on the forum post a link.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
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oldshaver
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Location: Zebulon, NC
Posts: 1193


« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2012, 04:01:30 PM »

Before posting instructions from suppliers , could you please check with someone with a chemistry background as to wether you are posting the correct info ! This subject has been discussed MANY times so try using the search function !


The Aussie is right! Those instructions ARE WRONG! Neutralising , before tanning with Lutan, MEANS YOU TANNED NOTHING!

You didnt have any problems? Of course you didnt, BUT you just mounted a pickled skin, that didnt tan AT ALL!!! The pickle is what locks hair in!

This is the last time I am going to post on this topic!

THE CORRECT WAY TO TAN WITH LUTAN, is to leave the SKIN ACIDIC, before exposing it to the tan! LUTAN is searching for ACIDIC COLLEGEN to attach to.

I have even went through the trouble of posting LUTAN INSTRUCTIONS, STRAIGHT from BASF, the manufacture of this product, and it still gets ignored.

Sodium Formate, is a masking  agent, that allows for slower tan uptake, and more uniform penetration.

KNOBLOCHS has the correct instructions on their website, and always have!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 06:31:00 PM by oldshaver » Logged
msbraintan
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Location: Up North MI
Posts: 311


« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2012, 04:36:03 PM »

Well that's great to know.. might as well blow smoke up this blonde coyotes a$$.
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Keyda81
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Location: Niagara Falls, NY
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I'd rather be weird than normal

« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2012, 05:09:19 PM »

Quoted from the breakthrough mammal taxidermy manual: "Pickled skins are too acidic to be tanned.  If they were placed directly in a tanning solution, the ionized skin protein would attract the tanning chemical to rapidly resulting in a barrier, or surface tan.  This is a rapid build up of chemical on the surface of the leather which prohibits complete penetration of the agent resulting in a poor tan, or no tan at all on the inside.  Therefore they are neutralized in a solution of 1 oz of sodium bicarbonate (backing soda)per gallon of water."

I'm sticking with the way I've been doing it, which is by van dyke's instructions.  I come out with a white colored leather skin, no slippage, smell, rot or anything else that would indicate that's it' not tanned.   
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My deer mobile "Emerald" and my baby "Race"
Kevin Halle
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« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2012, 05:40:07 PM »

.
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oldshaver
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Location: Zebulon, NC
Posts: 1193


« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2012, 05:58:18 PM »

Quoted from the breakthrough mammal taxidermy manual: "Pickled skins are too acidic to be tanned.  If they were placed directly in a tanning solution, the ionized skin protein would attract the tanning chemical to rapidly resulting in a barrier, or surface tan.  This is a rapid build up of chemical on the surface of the leather which prohibits complete penetration of the agent resulting in a poor tan, or no tan at all on the inside.  Therefore they are neutralized in a solution of 1 oz of sodium bicarbonate (backing soda)per gallon of water."

I'm sticking with the way I've been doing it, which is by van dyke's instructions.  I come out with a white colored leather skin, no slippage, smell, rot or anything else that would indicate that's it' not tanned.  


That "surface tanned" expression, comes straight out of a "leather Tanners" book. That term is used to describe the tanning of "thicker leathers", used for purposes other than Taxidermy.

Taxidermy skins, especially for mounting, will NEVER SEE a surface tan, because they are too thin! Any body, with the "slightest amount" of tanning knowledge, knows it is impossible to "surface tan" a skin, that is less than 1/32 of an inch thick to start with. That is stupid!

The tan itself is attracted to an acidic skin, then it bonds tightly to the skin as the pH is raised.
Maybe the folks writing the Breakthrough articles know more than the MFG of the product, and the only wholesale supplier in the USA, of the product?

I doubt it!

You keep mounting your pickled skins! Have you ever tried a "curl test", to prove the tan? The Lutan curls at least 30deg F higher, using the method I explained!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 06:32:32 PM by oldshaver » Logged
nts2010
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Location: Victoria / Australia
Posts: 269


« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2012, 06:33:10 PM »

Thanks Aubrey , I had "tanned " a couple of flat fallow skins using the VD method , all was good until they had a couple glasses of water spilt on them , they then fell apart , can someone who swears by this method explain to us who know nothing why this happened  ? I have  used the CORRECT method  for 4 years with no problems at all .
 By the way for those who wish to know NTS stands for Northern Taxidermy & Skins  , 1 of only about 10 people in Australia that do taxidermy tanning for other taxidermists .
  Please by all means assist those that request help but make sure you are correct when talking about things that you can be proved wrong or right on because if you are wrong someone WILL notice it and tell the rest of the world !
  Have fun voicing your opinion , opinions become fact when they are proved , 1 fact is that assumption is the mother of all @#$%ups !
 cheers Peter , Northern Taxidermy & Skins
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Learn from the mistakes of others , you wont live long enough to make them all yourself !
Keyda81
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Location: Niagara Falls, NY
Posts: 626


I'd rather be weird than normal

« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2012, 06:41:41 PM »

Well put this into consideration if you will.  I did a deer tail using the instructions provided from van dykes, which you guys say is wrong, and it's only pickled skin.  After it dried I put the tail on the tailgate of my truck, it is shoved under the edge of the tail gate liner, and it sees every bit of rain, snow, wind, and what ever mother nature decides to throw at it.  It's still in one piece, not losing any hair at all.  It's been rained on, and snowed on, and blown around in seventy mile an hour winds, and there is nothing wrong with it. 
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My deer mobile "Emerald" and my baby "Race"
msbraintan
Silver Member
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Location: Up North MI
Posts: 311


« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2012, 06:43:35 PM »

So if I take my coyote skin that I THINK is tanned and put it back in the pickle will it then turn back acidic??
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