I dp but want to try tanning
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Taxidermy.Net Forum  |  Beginners, Training & Tutorials  |  Beginners  |  Topic: I dp but want to try tanning « previous next »
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« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2012, 08:22:11 PM »

I started out DP'ing and wanted to take a step tward tanning without taking a balls to the wall plunge like George said. I used Sure cure from James taxi supply this year and was very pleased with it.very easy.  Flesh,turn eyes ears lips, salt for abt 3 hrs, wash towel dry,thin. Mount. Color is great, lots of stretch. Not saying its as good as tanning but if u r pushed for time and space like I am It Works For Me!check it out
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boarhunter67
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« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2012, 12:25:29 AM »

Well, all that tells me is that you haven't done much tanning.  KT is successful because it's simply a GOOD pickle IMO is one where the pH is between 1.0 and 1.5.  That's stronger than the formic acid in KT could ever achieve and it will lock hair down tighter than Dick's hatband. If you want a pickle that carries that to extreme, try sulfuric acid.
George, I know all that.  Are you seriously saying anyone who hasn't used a tan without a pickle hasn't done much  tanning?  Wow.  Maybe you didn't really mean, but that's exactly what you said. 
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George Roof
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« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2012, 06:52:31 AM »

NO, that's not what I'm saying.  Here's what you wrote:

  "I was comparing KT to most tans, which require pickling.  I have no experience with tans that don't require pickling." 

Now which part of that is correct.  You're recommending KT or you're recommending a tan requiring a pickle????  Now if you're recommending KT, it IS a pickle.  If you're recommending a TAN, you have to go someplace else.  Bot JRTS and PT are simply TANS without the pickle step. I like the way PT is titled and explained on the label.  It says that it's a "Preservant Tan" which is exactly what JRTS is as well.  Our industry standard says that in order to TAN, one needs to salt, pickle, neutralize, tan, and oil.  We tend to bastardize the word "tan" and from a beginner's aspect, that's a disservice.  SOMEONE needs to explain the differences occasionally so that these "beginners" don't presume there's some magic elixir our there that will eliminate slipping, give you great stretch, tan, and oil just by dropping a raw hide in a bucket.
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josh s.
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« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2012, 08:06:37 AM »

I started out DP'ing and wanted to take a step tward tanning without taking a balls to the wall plunge like George said. I used Sure cure from James taxi supply this year and was very pleased with it.very easy.  Flesh,turn eyes ears lips, salt for abt 3 hrs, wash towel dry,thin. Mount. Color is great, lots of stretch. Not saying its as good as tanning but if u r pushed for time and space like I am It Works For Me!check it out
so you are mounting a thinned, salted cape???

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« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2012, 08:56:01 AM »

Well, all that tells me is that you haven't done much tanning.  KT is successful because it's simply a GOOD pickle IMO is one where the pH is between 1.0 and 1.5.  That's stronger than the formic acid in KT could ever achieve and it will lock hair down tighter than Dick's hatband. If you want a pickle that carries that to extreme, try sulfuric acid.
I use a formic and alum based pickle. A hide  pulled from that pickle and neutralized looked and felt exactly like the one and only time I have used k-tann on a hide. Actually the hide out of the pickle looks nice and white and stretches well, but I would never mount with a pickled hide.   To each his own though...
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joeym
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« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2012, 09:08:49 AM »

Another option that is a mid-point between DP & tanning is to apply Sodium sulfate (SS) to the prepped skin, refrigerate overnight, wash out the SS, spin, towel dry, shave, then apply Ben Mears spray tan, or Sure Cure spray tan.
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Joe Miitchell (aka jkmitch) and Joey Murphey (joeym)

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« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2012, 10:03:09 AM »

NO, that's not what I'm saying.  Here's what you wrote:

  "I was comparing KT to most tans, which require pickling.  I have no experience with tans that don't require pickling." 

Now which part of that is correct.  You're recommending KT or you're recommending a tan requiring a pickle????  Now if you're recommending KT, it IS a pickle.  If you're recommending a TAN, you have to go someplace else.  Bot JRTS and PT are simply TANS without the pickle step. I like the way PT is titled and explained on the label.  It says that it's a "Preservant Tan" which is exactly what JRTS is as well.  Our industry standard says that in order to TAN, one needs to salt, pickle, neutralize, tan, and oil.  We tend to bastardize the word "tan" and from a beginner's aspect, that's a disservice.  SOMEONE needs to explain the differences occasionally so that these "beginners" don't presume there's some magic elixir our there that will eliminate slipping, give you great stretch, tan, and oil just by dropping a raw hide in a bucket.
  George, you're not making sense.  I said I don't have experience with tans that don't require pickles.  You have said many times KT isn't a tan.  You came back with saying I must not have done much tanning (if I haven't tanned without a pickle).  That makes no sense.  Most people who tan DO use a pickle so to say that if I haven't used a brush on tan like JRTS without a pickle means I don't have much experience tanning just doesn't make sense.  There's probably people on here who have tanned more hides by far than you who haven't used a tan that doesn't require a pickle.  I'm guessing you just misspoke or didn't understand the implications of what you were saying.  If that's the case, let's just move on.  If not, we'll have to agree to disagree because I don't know why you would say something like that. 
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George Roof
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« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2012, 12:45:16 PM »

No I understood well and what you thought you said didn't come across that way. Bot KT and JRTS/PT are hide preservation methods akin to DP in one sense.  Yet they BOTH are "partial" tans.  I still subscribe to using a tanning agent without the pickle since when I pickle it to a pH of 1.5, then I have to neutralize it to 7.0 and then lower it again to 4.5.  NO ONE, including my good buddy Bruce Rittel has convinced me of the necessity of the pickle.  Conversely, the "pickle tans" (like Krowtann) leave a harsh and tough skin UNLESS neutralized and oiled (as Krowtann directs). I don't know about your last statement, but when I started back in the 50's we pickled with battery acid and we tanned with alum. I never liked either.  Then I pickled with formic and tanned with Lutan.  I even chrome tanned a bit before the days of the EPA.  Still I looked for the EASIEST, FASTEST method that would give me the feel and smell of leather without all that pickle mixing and stirring. (And before you pull the stunt another guy here likes to try, YES, I've used Krowtann.  On my first, the hide shrunk 2 inches.  On the second one, I found very good stretch and it mounted exceptionally well.) But it's NOT "easier" nor "faster" than JRTS and PT.
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« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2012, 03:55:03 PM »

I've used JRTS, but as you said the mixture isn't what it used to be.  It seemed just about like most other tans I've used.  I did use it with a pickle so it was a true tan when I did it as far as I know.  The bottle did say it could be used with or without a pickle, but the temperatures here are already in the mid to high '90's so I don't like not using a pickle.  I was far more impressed with TruBond than any other tan I have come across.  I've tried quite a few and they all seem about the same to me with the exception of krowtann and TruBond.  I use krowtann when I get a hide that is very questionable and is especially prone to slipping like grey fox and bobcat.  I have never lost one to slippage that I krowtanned.  I know it's considered a preservative.  For most things I now use TruBond because I've never used a product that makes a hide so soft and stretchable.  In my opinion, it is superior to most if not all home tan products that I've used.  I was very skeptical before trying it, especially with the TruBond B which leaves skins soft without breaking them.  I didn't believe it would truely be as soft and stretchable as my tannery produces, but it did.  I have only used it on fox and bobcat wall hangers which are thinner skins, but it worked just as it promised.  I have never used dp on anything.  I hope this clears up any misunderstandings.
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joeym
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« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2012, 07:23:18 PM »

George, I ordered a quart of PT from HQ today...I'm really interested in trying it.   Approx how many capes will a quart cover?
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Joe Miitchell (aka jkmitch) and Joey Murphey (joeym)

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« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2012, 07:45:05 PM »

No josh not mounting a salted cape. I faild to mention the last step. After washing out salt and final fleshing u spray with the Sure Cure and use some tanning oil around eyes lips and nose pad.  I do realise its not a tan but is simply a preservative.
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TX Pat
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« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2012, 08:36:40 PM »

I've been using the PSI tanner and Liqua Tan for 14 years, Heavy skins go to the tannery. If I didn't have PSI tanner, all would go to Tannery. The key to being successful at home is being able to shave with a big wheel machine, otherwise your not going to get your size back. But I can tell you from experience, if your used to DP skin mounting, where you think you have a lot of stretch, your gonna have to change your mindset to mount a tanned skin. George is right about the paint on tans or preserves, you'll get that raw feel and stretch, but because of the salting and washing you'll remove more blood from the skin than you will with a DP cape. I know that in the past I've had bug problems with the paint on tans. Theres probably something you could add to the skin along with the paint on to prevent bugs though, I just didn't.
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« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2012, 09:09:59 PM »

Tx Pat I hav wondered abt rubbing in some borax after paint on or spray on preservative as a bug deturant but didn't know if it would counter act ?
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George Roof
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« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2012, 10:03:25 PM »

Joey, I put it on heavy so I get about 3. Its thin so you might get 4. I'm just one if those people who thinks more is better.
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TX Pat
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« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2012, 09:51:52 AM »

Tx Pat I hav wondered abt rubbing in some borax after paint on or spray on preservative as a bug deturant but didn't know if it would counter act ?
McKenzie sells a product  called Pro Tex  Pre-soak, could be used in your wash solution before putting your tan on. Also Pro Tex Mount Care which can be put in your drum are sprayed on a finished mount ?  I add this when I mix the MP hide paste. Just use with good ventilation , it gives me a headache.
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