Last month, after getting several questions about tanning, I attempted to get a free education by posing a question on the industry forum (albeit a poorly worded one). If you keep up on here, you already know what I got (if not, click the industry icon and go to Aug 24). I also got some very BAD information and so that it doesn't take you 43 years like it did with me, I want to share what MY TANNERY TOLD ME.
Yesterday, I killed 2 birds with one stone as I hand delivered some African hides to Carolina Fur Dressing in Raleigh, NC. I met and was given a tour of the tannery by Rick Morgan, the owner and a fine gentleman. What he told me, I will attempt to parlay in laymans language to you. REMEMBER, This is how Carolina does it. YOUR TANNER MAY NOT DO IT THIS WAY.
The tannery is located in a modern metal building on the industrial side of town. The receiving dock looks similar to all other businesses, but that's where it all ends. What I saw inside, away from the administrative clerks with their computers and records files, was the exact same thing I saw over 40 years ago. Not a whole lot has changed in tanning as for as the machinery and equipment. The only technique that has changed is the "Wet Tans" and Rick verified that Seminole Fur had claimed to be the first in their attempts and they had touted not adding oils. (Many away from the industry still think it was simply a pickling process that didn't have enough stretch and when rinsed, sometimes developed problems). Todays wet tans start out just like the dry tans with some of the final steps eliminated.
Dry Tan: This tan is ideal for rug works and has been used for ages in taxidermy. Hides are tanned using the same steps you'd use at home. After the tanning is complete, they are dried in gas driers until most of the moisture is removed. They are then painted with "grease", a heavy, thick, water INSOLUBLE oil. The hides are then put in "kickers", machines that literally pound the oil into the cell structures and drives the water out. They are dried again slightly to remove excess oil and placed in HUGE tumblers with floured sawdust. The tumblers are harsh on the hide as the "breaking" takes place in here. Once tumbled dry, the hides are ready for shipment.
Wet Tan: Tanning is done exactly the same, but when the process is completed, the hide is taken to an oiling table where a WATER SOLUBLE oil, much like a hand lotion, is applied to the cape after it is semi-dried. Excess oil is removed, the hides are placed in plastic bags, frozen and then shipped. This tan is ideal for mounting as the harsh tumbling steps where ears may be damaged and noses torn is omitted.
Dry Preserve: If you've ever seen a dead cat on the road, you understand that an animal hide will retain hair if the meat is removed and the hair allowed to stay in place until the skin dries. DP works just like this. The cell structure of the skin remains intact, but has nothing left to hold it's shape. Because of this, DP hides always have excessive stretch while green, but the stretch is greatly reduced as it dries which produces cracks in eyelids, noses, and seam patterns. Shrinkage is a real problem and only the best epoxie glues can ever hold a cape to withstand these stresses. DP consists of many products, but the standard is talc, borax, alum, and sometimes moth crystals in varying amounts and combinations. This dry chemical "sweetens" the cape to reduce insect infestations and the rotting of the flesh that may or may not have been left on the cape. The dry chemical constantly removes moisture from the hide and in humid areas, my even cause dripping. This contracting/expanding of the hide also weakens it. As the cell structure is not preserved, rehydrating a DP cape (intentionally or not) reforms the hide to its natural state.
Conversely, a tan actually pickles the hide to preserve the cell structure. Dry tans are softened by the intentional collapsing of these cell structures and the oil softens that structure so that this collapse does not sever the cell wall. Contrary to some inputs, very little protein is lost during the process, rather converted. As all skin, hair, and flesh are made of protein, any destruction or elimination will endanger the hair and hide remaining intact. Wet tans were a product of necessity to insure the quality in taxidermy. Any damage avoided at the tannery spells better quality of the end item. The oils traditional taxidermy did not work well in wet tanning as it left the capes greasy and water would not remove any excess. Both problems were avoided by using the water soluble oil to retain the integrity of the hide.
Now, I repeat, this is what MY TANNERY does and how Rick Morgan explained it to me. I apologized for my own ignorance and taking his time, but he was genuinely put off by that. He said that his biggest concern was that MORE TAXIDERMISTS didn't call or visit his tannery to see the work that went on. They would quickly see just why, at any given moment, it was impossible to account for a particular hide from a particular customer. (His shaving room had 8 people shaving hides at a rate of one deer cape every 10 minutes and two huge bins were filled to overflowing with shaved capes ready to be sent out to tanning vats. In the loading dock area were crates, boxes, bags, cartons, and cans with incoming dry salted hides awaiting their turn and in the packing area, thousands of capes were being sorted, folded, and packed for shipment. Rick also noted that many taxidermists tan their own capes because "they always have". He noted that if a taxidermist has a larger volume of work, the $30 he charges for tanning are quite a bargain. If a taxidermist takes 4 hours to tan his or her hides, they utilize $100 worth of labor that could be spent on other projects.
For you beginners, I would encourage you to contact YOUR tannery and ask any questions you have. Refuse to be intimidated. A tanner who doesn't have time for you isn't earning his money. You wouldn't let your car dealer get away with that. You'd go someplace else. Treat business the same way. Tanning is NOT magic. It's basic concept hasn't changed much since the Indians used brains or oak bark. It's a primitive trade that endures because of people like us. Some of the methods have been modified, but the basics are the still the same. Asking questions threatens no one's livelihood and tanners weren't born with pH papers in their diapers. Visit your tannery, but call before you go to insure someone has the time to show you around. Tanneries today have myriads of government agencies pestering them and making them spend hours on records keeping to feed the bureaucratic monsters. The work is arduous, tedious, and ball breaking brute labor (How would you like to sit at a shaving machine for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 20 years. Aside from looking like Popeye, you'd probably go crazy.) The only difference between a "good" tannery and a "bad" one is the quality of the final product. You can make the bad ones go away by not utilizing them, and once you visit one, you won't have any fantasies about what goes on there.
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I thank you greatly for the time you spent educating me and others on this forum. I find that many criticize your efforts on the forum but they rarely spend the time necessary to make a contribution as you just did.
I've been on this forum since its inception and this is, hands down, the best description of how each method differs from the other. Invaluable to me as I can now explain to my own customers the benfits of tanning over DP. And the five minutes it took to read your post launched me another three years ahead in my taxidermy knowledge. Thanks again.
thanks for sharing all the info that you do.
"I praise the lord my soul to KEEP,
For a biginner ive learned its not so CHEAP."
"A third of George Roofs KNOWLEDGE,
And I wouldnt need no COLLEGE."
George i would just like to say thank you for everything, thank you for sharing your knowledge, thank you for helping me and others when we need it most. If it werent for this forum and the people like you, lord knows, I would STILL be at first base.
Keep up the good work Mr. Georoof and remember all YOU have to do is think and type, and so many people will benifit from it.
bye bye bye
william
I was a contributor in that last post, so why not now, eh? You are right, thats just one way of doing it. Theres more to it then that, and also some variation. That descriptive should ease the minds of the guys who still use Carolina, and the next best advice would be for guys to ask THIER tanneries how they do it at THIER place!
Thanks for taking the time to type this up and share with all. You set a fine example for the rest of us to try and follow. Shame that while you were down here in NC we couldn't gotten together for a cup of coffee.Keep up the good work George
Wayne Hargrove
Ironic isn't it George? That you who asked the questions last month, were the one to now answer them?! I love your motivation, as well as thankful of your opportunity to be able to visit your tannery and see upfront what goes on and EXPLAIN IT to all of us. It was a great education and not at all detrimental to the industry...LOL Rather a benefit I'd say! As usual you are priceless to the taxidermy world, as you are so willing to share all you've learned over the years with us, whether you receive an ass-kicking or a thanks! THANKS George. (that was an asskick thanks by the way...LOL)
Too, that was good advice you gave for people to call or visit their own tanneries, to ask how THEY do things. You covered all areas.
You are indeed an impact, George! And an extremely nice gentleman. Thank you for all that you do, for this industry.
Once again, you said a mouthfull Leanna, way to go!
Just got back in town and noticed your post, thought about leaving it alone, but, since there's still a few shots in there, I need to say a little.
First, thanks for driving to North Carolina so people didn't need to use the search button to find all that information alredy on here.
Second, keep this in mind, when Seminole was first starting in the tanning business, I was trapping in west central Georgia, and Jim was a pretty good sized fur buyer at that time. For the first couple years I was there 3 or 4 times a week selling, and got to know them pretty good, and saw the start to finish process. Now, not being a tanner, but haveing done skinning work for taxidermists, I did have a pretty good idea of what I was seeing, and now, more than twenty years later I know exactly what I was seeing. He started out doinfg a lot of Liqua Tans for people, that's what they wanted so that's what he did for them. Maybe, possibly, this might be what Carolina refers to as not oiled. I remember when he first tried lutan, and I remember seeing Bryant standing there leaning over the table oiling skins too.
Within a couple years I started working for Jim in the winter, fur prices were too low to make it on fur alone. About this same time, he started getting more and more calls from taxidermists who had been told by Carolina that wet tans weren't properly tanned, and the only tanners who did it was because they didn't know how to properly tan and soften a skin. This went on for quite some time, and yes, it did cause a lot of problems for him in haveing to constantly explain his process and give assurances to customers about the product, all because of somebody speaking out without knowing what they were talking about. Sound familiar?
When, about a decade later, carolina finally gave in to pressure and began wet tanning, all of a sudden it became a good thing. The first time I saw they were offering ewt tans, I just kind of had to grin a little.
So, if you still want to believe your "source" go ahead, I think I'll believe my eyes, they haven't failed me yet.
No matter how you look at it, the original "question" you and old timer had was ridiculous. It's been answered repeatedly and was just a vail for an assault on wet tans, but again, thanks for making it so people didn't need to use the search button.
Keith
Almost a decent explanation of the "rest of the story". And imagine a tanner having to explain to paying customers that there really WAS a difference in the types of oils used. Geez, that would have taken at least 2 whole sentences. No where in the archives did I ever find there was different oils used during any process. Stupid taxidermists like me should have figured that out by ourselves I suppose. And I found out years ago, tanneries are a lot like taxidermists. If they spent less time sniping at each others' processes and learning how to be potty trained sociably, a lot of misinformation would not be floating around. If so much information was contained in the archives, you could have taken a high road and just said "Read the archives". Instead, valuable space was used for venting PERIOD. I guess the beginners on here did get an education but it's not one I'm proud of and neither should anyone else be. The absolute arrogance of protecting information on the bottom of the food chain where taxidermists and tanners live is ridiculous. How many "taxidermists" quit each year because it takes them that long to find out the drudgery involved in this business. We might have saved many of them a trip had we not tried to hide behind closed doors or throw them out of our shops when they asked "stupid" questions. "Stupid" questions come to those who take for granted what others haven't been educated about. I hope I never stoop that low. Now, I've said ALL I had to say about any of this. I'll just do the proper thing from now on and refer them to archives where most of the information is contained.
It's in the archives was told repeatedly, and you still kept slamming wet tans.
I, and many other tanners, DON'T use two differnt oils, and it has been stated many times, it's in the archives.