what is the current best method for degreasing ducks
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collmen fuel, works good just put them in for about 1-2 an hour and take out and then wash in a cuople time and tumble in a tumbler,this should work good luck, ht,
Proper degreesing must include mechanicly removing the fat between the quils. Coleman fuel and Mineral spirits just displaces water.
Dawn dish washing soap removes the liquified grease after it is removed by the wheel or whatever you you to get the fat out.
Tony
They are unrelenting on it I guess. I remember the hubbub when we had to quit using arsenic, DDT, and endolin U, but maybe it was because we didn't have computers, there weren't this many dumb responses to it. GASOLINE, COLEMAN FUEL, MINERAL SPIRITS DO NOT DEGREASE. Get over it.
I have used the mineral spirit method for years. My birds never go bad nor yellow. After soaking my birds, I have a nice pool of grease floating in the spirits. A few years back there was an article in Breakthrough about a taxidermist in Texas who uses the method. Might want to read through it.
I have been a user of white gas for over 25 years, with excellent, dependable results.
However, it is NOT a degreaser, PERIOD!
I have seen some waterfowl mounts that were "degreased" with solvents or other chemical means which claimed - FALSELY - that they eliminated the need for time-consuming manual de-fatting.
They actually look OK for a little while after they are mounted ... up until the grease begins to leach out of the fat and soaks the feathers. What a JOKE!
The fat must be physically removed - ALL of it - and then the oil film must be cleaned away from the skin and feathers using a detergent or degreaser designed to attack organic grease. After thorough rinsing, the white gas is an optional step which serves to displace water and speeds the drying process.
Using the gas before washing makes no sense. It has no effect at all on bloodstains. Why put gas down your drain? Regardless of whether you are on a private septic system or a public sewer, that is just plain silly.
Nancy M.
It seems we have few Taxidermists that have majored in Chemistry. I wonder why painters use solvents to remove the paint off their brushes if "it don't remove grease/oil PERIOD"
And why not Dove Soap for cleansing, it take grease (which in most cases IS ANIMAL FAT) off your dishes......
Think about the barrage of household chemicals that go down the drain every day. Do you think they have any fumes/ gasses? I bet no one here has never cleaned a sink or a toilet with multiple chemicals and sent them into the public sewer.
Using gosoline or other flamable fuels to clean up a duck can be just plain dangerous. Gas fumes "cling" to clothing and one accident could negate a lifetime of "benefits" from the practice. Dawn detergent is a powerful and safe method to was grease away after the wire wheel work and is as safe as it gets. We all need to look around the shop from time to time and identify those unsafe/unhealthy aspects of what we do and look for other ways. Ventalation fans, fire extinguishers, and no oily rags left lying around can help us make it to retirement (if there is such a thing).Best wishes, Aaron Honeycutt
I see the valid point of the safety issue. And yes other alternative chemicals are available, but to say mineral spirits, thinner etc. are not usable as degreasers is nonsense! Personally I've swithched to Rittel's Super Safety Solvent. But I wouldn't hesitate to pull out the ol odorless mineral spirits if needed!
Think of it this way, what happens when you use/handle mineral spirits or gas and it gets on your bare skin or hands? It dries them out... by removing the natural oils in you skin! Thus "degreasing" your hands! Many a duck and upland bird has been swimming in gas before being drapped over a wrapped or foam body! Sure the guy who is careless and trys to smoke while doing so is already a total idiot and should always be aware!
More than one way to skin a cat and a lot of folks have hard time grasping any ideas other than their own!
Just my opinion!
First off, Hans, even R2D2 knows that Dove doesn't MAKE soap. There's a big difference between soap and detergent or beauty bars (like Dove makes). HOT WATER will remove oil too and detergent always recommends that you use hot water. Any of the petroleum distillates are simply a different form of oil and washing grease off you engine block works by dissolving the petroleum base. Animal fats can only be removed with SOAPS which attack the protein base. I would ask you two to read back just a few weeks and you'll see where Steve Steinbring answered all those questions, but I already see you didn't read the label on the mineral spirits. It says; "Do not breathe vapors or spray mist. To aboid vapors, open window,doors and use other means to ensure fresh air entry during application.In case of eye contact, flush thoroughly with plenty of water and get medical attention; for skin WASH THOROUGHLY WITH SOAP AND WATER. Do not use this product on large surfaces (more than 4 square feet) (Just how big IS a turkey or goose?) as the potentioal for fire and health risks increase dramatically.Do not dump on the gound or in local sewer or discharge systems. This product contains a chemical know to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm."
Pretty interesting reading if you get past the chemistry book, huh?
Even certain safety solvents can be dangerous! They are called safety solvents because they are non-flammable! HOWEVER, did you read the warnings, are the fumes toxic? I have sold thousands of gallons of safety solvents. The products that we produced were made from trichlorethylene or perchlorethylene, in short dry cleaning fluid and the fumes are toxic. The same material is sold under several names as a consumer product such as Electro-Clean for cleaning electrical contactors. We actually made several safety solvents where the trichlorethylene was mixed with stoddard solvent a highly refined mineral spirits raising the flashpoint for certain cleaning applications.
BOTTOMLINE READ THE PRODUCTS INSTRUCTIONS, AND IF YOU ARE NOT SURE CHECK THE MSDS FOR THE SAFETY PRECAUTIONS. Not everything is what it seems especially with chemicals.
Thank you for the support Georgee Puddin Pie, or is it George of the Jungle or is it Curious George?. My handle is Hansolocam because I am a master archery deer hunter utilizing solocam technology and my arrows travel at light speed (LOL).
It seems you are a little hot under the collar. Let's not make things personal like this, we are simply on a forum to discuss or brainstorm ideas and everyone's input is valuable. I just want to be a better taxidermist, but it seems you hold all the answers to the craft. ( I dont know or care who actually manufactures the soap, but the label reads DOVE)
Hans,
What George is saying is that nobody makes real soap (lye soap)for the most part today. What you purchase today is a synthetic detergent whose PH can be made to be either basic or acidic depending on application needs. For best degreasing/cleaning an alkaline detergent works best when combined with the correct surfactants to give the desired results.
Keep'em in the "X" ring!
If your safety solvent is 1-1-1 trichlorethylene or perk the water will float on top of the solvent its heavier than water.
But trees keep getting in my way and light arrows keep being deflected in the sun. The good thing about the solocam is that the arrow gets there so quickly that while the deer is watching it ricochet off the trees around it, I have time to re-nock and miss again.
Mr. Hanslocam,
Your quote was "It seems we have few Taxidermists that have majored in Chemistry." - Actually many of us have had 5 or more chemistry classes in college, essentially enough for a minor and more than most highschool chemistry teachers are required to take. Some of us regularly refer to chemistry books much like one would read novels.
In regards the soap. A number of companies do manufacture soap, most notable ivory soap flakes that come in a box. However, you DO NOT want to use a soap, as suggested above. The main reason for this is the precipitation factor. Ever notice when you exit the bathtub there is a ring aroung the tub? That is the minerals in the water and the dirt on your body reacting with soap. If you use a soap product in washing a bird you would likely get "bathtub scum" on your bird and it would be nigh impossible to remove in all areas of the skin.
In regards the statement "painters use solvents to remove the paint off their brushes" The solvents used by many painters is often methanol or turpentine, not your standard aliphatic hydrocarbon. Most painters have also realized the health benefits from abandoning oil based paints. Turpentine was actually recommended about a hundred years ago as the best solvent for degreasing birds. Unfortunately it changes the colors of many feathers and leaves a film like gasoline/mineral spirits.
Any amount of degreasing a soak in gasoline does is very miniscule. It does aid in removing water that contains the residual water and hidden vestiges of detergent/fat mixture. But as mentioned over and over in the archives, there is a film left over on the feathers. Pour a little gasoline in a clean glass and let it evaporate in a safe place. There will be a coating on the bottom of the glass which represents what is left on each and every feather. For commercial taxidermy the film isn't such a big problem. I however, don't want the film ON MY LUNGS where it would accumulate by my breathing in the vapors.
I am sure this discussion will go on ad infinitum, as does the argument as to which is better DP or tanning. Which are you? - I'm guessing dry preservative.