I have some rather lengthy questions regarding the treatment of bird skins (specifically, ducks).
From researching in the forum archives, and online, I understand that there is question about whether "bird tans" do anything other than preserve the skins. Could someone explain to me what these products actually DO? Are they like a liquid DP?
I cannot seem to find any reference in my own library, or online, that gives me much helpful information about the anatomy and skin structure of birds. Does anyone know of any good books on the subject, or websites, that they can refer me to?
I would also like to know what those of you that do NOT use DP on their birds do, in fact, use on them (or I would be interested in knowing what happened when you did use something different...). I would like to try 2 or 3 different methods for myself just to see how they work. I am using DP currently, but am considering one of the "bird tan" products, and Lutan-F, it is the only true tanning chemical I can find that says it is safe to use on birds. I have EZ100 here, and would like to try that if that is possible, but I dont want to waste a beautiful bird if it is not.
I am one of those people who like to experiment and learn for themselves, and I really would appreciate some answers/help/guidance beyond "Just use DP/borax"!
Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge!
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Bird tan Phoooey! Borax is pretty much all ya need..If you want to see the skin turn white,before ya wash it after fleshing put 409 on the skin side it will not only degrease but turn the skin white...I mainly mount birds and this pre soak and a couple washes of oxy clean and dawn antibacterial works just fine.. I do a bit of wholesale work for other shops and while working at a freinds shop they wanted to show me how one of those fancy degreasers worked on bird skin,,Oh it worked, it melted a pinnfeather woodie.If your looking to tighten the bird skin Alum will do the job but its already in the DP.To tan a bird skin ,we dont look for streatch and we aint wearing it..WHY?
Just my .02's worth
Ok, I guess ONE reason why I would like to tan, is that I would like to have some extra time to mount the skins, rather than working my HINEY off during duck season....I hate putting them in and out of the freezer, and Im just not quick enough yet (getting quicker tho!) to get through the whole skinning/fleshing/mounting procedure in what I feel is a reasonable time. If I could get them skinned, fleshed then tanned, I could have a little freedom to take my time, and not have to rush, and not do as good of a job as I could do. They are beautiful birds, each one of them, and I want to do as good of a job as I can do on them!
Now, does anyone have any help to offer beyond "just use DP"? I really would like some help on finding skin structure references if anyone knows of any :)
Thanks!
C. :)
In order to do a "real tan" to make a piece of leather, there needs to be a salting stage, preferably till dry, followed by a pickling stage where the skin (including feathers) is left for a period in a solution that is very low in ph, i.e. acidic, then the application of the tan. While a bird skin and feathers MIGHT survive this prolonged proceedure - they certainly can be salted and dried, and later hydrated to mount, but I think the feather structure would suffer from the pickle. The main problem is the drying of all the tendons left within the bird. Mammals only have the skin tanned whereas birds have lots more tendons in the wings and legs and tanning and drying will still end with a stiff dried SHRUNKEN tendon which will be nigh impossible to mount unless you do it right away. Mammal hides can be relaxed after tanning but birds will not. Besides, application of the tan would likely leak some material into the feathers, and washing birds feathers is WAY different then dabbing out some tan which leaked on a mammals' fur side.
I would suggest you simply speed up your process of skinning, wire-wheeling/degreasing, and washing, and store your birds in the freezer slightly filled out with damp/wet towels. It should take but 2-3 hours for the initial prep and you can later spend an additional period of time mounting them a month or 10 months later.
If you still want a reference to have on skin anatomy, together with feathers, bones, etc. Get this book:
Lucas, Alfred M., and Peter R. Stettenheim. 1972. Avian Anatomy Integument, 2 Volumes. Washington D.C. US Department of Agriculture 4to 750 pp, 2 volumes. Agriculture handbook 362. Descriptive anatomy of domestic fowl and laboratory birds.
I sure appreciate your time and explanations to my questions, they were exactly what I was looking for! I will definitely try to find the books you suggested, I can't believe it is so difficult to find avian skin information!
As for the tanning, I have decided to do a little experimentation on the first bird I wire-wheeled--I'm not expecting much out of him in the way of looks anyhow,he will be good to test on. Im going to use a soak tan rather than a paint on "bird tan," so we will see what happens in the way of shrinkage (and that should avoid the icky stuff on the feathers). Hopefully I can get him wired and mounted before he dries, although my tan doesnt seem to shrink my mammals up at all, so maybe it will be easy on my bird!
Thanks again SO MUCH for the info I was looking for!
Christina :)