Why is the supply area off limits to the general public. If people pay their money to get in and view the entries why not the supply area. I would think that the state sponsoring the show would want this so more people would join the association. This question is not to be taken in a mean or nasty way. I enjoy going to the shows and enjoy viewing other peoples' work. I just don't have the time to join an organization at this time. Thank you
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Its a trade show, so outsiders are not generally allowed in.
Why should the average joe thats just wanting to save abuck, get it when they had nothing to do with getting the suppliers to the show.
SEMA will not let you into their Auto trade show. (Auto acc.Show)
DEMA will not either. (Diving Equip)
Try to get into the Home Electronics show with out the proper papers!
So you take a splinter out of your finger, does that mean you should get into a Dr's Lecture on Brain surgery, because someday you may want to try it?
If you want to see the new forms and buy supplies at a cheaper price join the association other wise, what is in the trade show is not any of your business.
If you have the time to see the mounts and time to walk through the trade show you have the time to pay the little dab of money for dues.
the people who attend these shows pay associaton dues and a registration fee to be able to attend all the functions. You want to come in as one of the public who pays a minimal fee to see the exhibits and go to the supply area and buy supplies? Duh!There is no "other peoples work" in the supply area, and that is exactly why there are guards on the door to keep non-members out.
Join up!
..before the horse. Maybe if people like YOU joined an association,you'd see where your money benefits you. There is a symbiotic relationship between suppliers who attend shows and the organizations who sponsor the shows. Why should someone who only pays for sightseeing priviledges receive any of the perks of members whose dues were used to support the function anyway? Most suppliers offer "show specials" to members attending the function. Why should a non-member be given anything? In fact, I don't know why you'd even consider GOING to a function that you didn't support. But we both know the bottom line to all this, don't we? You weren't interested in joining, nothing was going to convince you to join, you only went in hopes of sneaking into the supply area, buying supplies at reduced costs, avoiding shipping costs, and when you were stopped, it only gave you reason to gripe about it. You thought you couldn't lose and for a few bucks, it was worth the try. Well, I'm delighted you got caught. Serves you right.
...to get into the Suppliers exhibits at the World Show in Springfield? I know if I were a supplier I wouldn't want to have people pay to see my booth. Why should I have to pay anything? They're the ones that need my business, NOT visa-versa. I GUARANTEE the suppliers are losing potential customers cuz I sure as heck ain't paying anything to see their products...
That s a good one! "They're the ones that need my business". Have you casted a deer form lately? But to the point. Association dues go far further than visiting suppliers. It's plain,simple, logic. No dues-No perks! Hundreds can be saved by a simple nominal fee. Doesn't seem like a very controversial subject. Pay up and support the industry. Jeff F.
That s a good one! "They're the ones that need my business". Have you casted a deer form lately? But to the point. Association dues go far further than visiting suppliers. It's plain,simple, logic. No dues-No perks! Hundreds can be saved by a simple nominal fee. Doesn't seem like a very controversial subject. Pay up and support the industry. Jeff F.
You are not paying to go to the supply area. You are paying to see the seminars and with that allows you to go into the supply area. Your money goes to pay the seminarians and judges and the cost of putting on the show for you to attend.
Todd B
...I'm just a fish guy. And I was specifically talking about the World Championships. Which, if I'm not mistaken everybody pays the same amount to get in whether you're affiliated with the NTA, IGT, UTA or the YMCA! Don't know the costs off-hand, but I do know that a friend and I took a pass at the '03 competitions because it simply got to be a pretty darned expensive weekend. And he and I thought it was quite expensive to have the "privilege" to see the suppliers.
Perhaps to others that are full service shops and/or others that are more reliant on the supply companies than I might benefit. But I wouldn't benefit very much at all. And you know what? When it comes time to ordering from those supply companies, My Visa is just as good as yours and anybody elses...
...then that's the way they decided to run things. That's their choice. But it's also my choice as to whether or not I wish to attend!
I thought the supply area was a separate charge, my bad. Personally, I'd rather see them charge separately for the seminars then. Have a nominal fee/ticket per seminar. Being just a fish guy, I don't want to have to pay for 75% of the seminars that do not apply to me. Or just to get into the suppliers area. Separate the whole deal out and let the people choose where they wish to spend their money. I simply have a problem PAYING to SEE new products. Products that I'll see in a FREE catalog 6 months later. Most trade shows outside of our industry are either free or they charge a minimal fee. Wasn't the cost to get into the suppliers area at the WTC $40 bucks or so?
I'll admit that the suppliers make our lives easier. But taxidermists have functioned w/o all the "necessities" suppliers offer us nowadays for centuries. The supply companies are the symbiont in my eyes...
But if you ever leave the fish world, you won't be as quick to make that remark. Sure suppliers need you just like Exxon needs you to buy their gas, but guess what, if YOU don't there's someone else in line who will.
I doubt Frank was referring to the World Show as this is their off year. The World Show is an entirely commercial,privately funded affair. The name is owned by Larry Bloomquist and he pays the freight entirely on his own by revenues he generates entirely on his one. The NTA, IGT, and state shows can't call their shots the way Larry does. As for the NTA, IT must contract out a facility, contract out equipment, pay for transportations of required support equipment and pay for security. They charge for the booth space. If we had a show WITHOUT suppliers, it would dull our attendance more than the money we'd save on contracted facilities. You can't have it both ways.Those suppliers are available to you by toll free number, UPS, FedEx, or other carries. The HOST organization brought them nearer to you for YOUR convenience and the least that can be expected is renumeration for their efforts. Any one of our NTA seminars would have cost you a multiple of what our entry fee was (We had Frank Kotula, Gary Bruch, Dan Rinehart, and Frankie Thompson - all national and/or world champions mounting fish.) You'd have spent more than the dues on shipping what you bought at the show. So where's the complaint. I know The World Show isn't that much different. Because you didn't take advantage of what your admission offered is basically your fault.
And you hit the nail on the head. From my perspective/situation I simply wouldn't benefit as much as most others. Hence the reasons for my frustrations and my inability to see through the forest. I realize that with my circumstances, I am in the minority.
I don't see myself buying very much at these shows anyways, so it's not that big of a deal to me. And perhaps I'm just set in my ways. Except for the "Scamway" folks, you usually don't see too many people getting excited enough to PAY to see products. The shoe is normally on the other foot.
I guess I would like to see something (at these shows) more like the cafeteria plan in the health insurance industry. Let people pick and choose where they want to spend their money. Don't make me pay to see the suppliers. And don't make me pay to see Joe Smoe on "How to Skin an Aligator". Maybe it would be too cumbersome and not prove cost-effective? I don't know. All I know is I'm a taxidermist and POOR! By lumping in several activities and therefore raising the costs beyond my reach, they are in effect losing potentially paying folks that do not wish to see the whole show. I would have loved to attend the WTC's this past year but it was simply too expensive. And I could drive. I can't imagine what you folks that have to fly in would be spending. Which brings up another point. How much are folks really buying and bringing home with them?
Hey, how about getting some federal funds to promote our "Art" instead!
Why not let the suppliers decide? I would think it would be to their advantage to service all comers at the shows. This way everybody wins. Those that want to pay exorbatant fees can and those that don't, don't.
Why not at (say for instance) the NTA sponsored shows they let in EVERYBODY for free to see the suppliers. And offer (say) 10% discounts to NTA members instead? Non-members pay full price.
Seems to me that the suppliers are losing potential exposure/business because of the way things are run. And since in effect they are paying for (or at least a substantial portion of) the shows, I don't understand why they wouldn't be upset with this significant fee as I'm sure it limits the number of potential buyers. I know if I were a supplier (paying for space) and somebody told me that NOW people are going to have to fork over $40 bucks to see my products on top of my space fee I was already paying, I'd think twice about being a sponsor at that particular show in the future...
If the NTA held a show and let EVERYONE in, what would be the benefit to the dues paying member? And why should the organization invite a supplier to cater to non-members? (They seem to survive the rest of the year). And the suppliers are coming to let the members know that they, in turn, support the organization. We, as a group, more or less guarantee them a captive audience.
I have no empathy for non-members at all. One of the reasons for being a member of the NTA, IGT, or your state association is to get some benefits in return. To give those perks to non-members sort of shoots the idea of being a member don't you think. Suggestions that WE (organizations) use extra manpower or take extra precautions and exceptions only puts more work on the organization. Why should any organization think anything is being served by allowing non-members to enjoy all the benefits without the indulgence. I know the hours I put in at a show and I do that for my fellow members. I don't figure I really need to excuse my feelings on letting non-members pay pittance and receive the same benefits. Like LOTTO, you gotta pay to play and you gotta Play to Win. I don't allow uninvited guests into my house and I feel the same way about conventions. It's rather a slap in my face when I hear this person then complain because I wouldn't let him in. Oh well, join the family and that won't be a problem.
I know Ill piss you all off, but here goes anyway. Are you guys running on autopilot, sans brains?
Sheesh, I went to the World show last year, and the damned gas station had the NERVE to charge me for gas! Just to go see suppliers! In MY humble opinion the suppliers shouldve made sure I had enough fuel to go see them. They sure wont get MY business next time!
Sounds about as assinine as can be? I figured so.
The suppliers come from all over the country, away from a building thats already selling product just fine, to support OUR industry. They do so by paying their help, offering you free shipping by picking up goods at the show, and offering a percentage off, both cash and carry as well as at-the-show ordering. Basically, the suppliers are losing money fast before they get out their driveway.
Now for the show. The show is supported by the attendees. Memberships, competition entry fees, registration fees (if a group) and admittance fees. The show doesnt NEED to offer one day passes, viewing only passes, or any other discounts. The person who supports his organization or event pays for the priviledge of all events associated with the show.
TO FRANK in PA...while I understand why you question this, heres some question. How can you have the time to attend the show, not be able to get into the supplier area, and then state that "I just dont have the time to join an organization at this time."?
TO MARTY...Im not sure where the heck you are coming from. I just spoke to a young lady who was asking about classes for her husband. He is fairly new to taxidermy, and has a good daytime job. When I mentioned their going to our state show instead of coming to see me for classes, she couldnt believe their good fortune! A part-timer that, upon hearing of a good quality state show, recognized the very obvious benefits to her and her husband.
Bottom line may well be this...many (most) of you asking this probably dont know the full details of how business works as it pertains to trade shows, and more specifically, taxidermy industry. Maybe this helps you see the obvious.
I'm in complete agreement with you in that if the NTA runs a show that their members should receive the perks. Non-members don't. That's cut and dry.
Bill, you're probably right - I am a bit ignorant as to how the whole ballgame works when it comes to suppliers and our industry. Your "analogy" with the gas is funny. Inacurate and not really similar at all, but funny!
And, we've debated with opposite points of view over economics in general in the past. Maybe it's a matter of perspective? You say the supply companies are there to support our industry - which is true, to a point. But I say they're there to ADVERTISE their stuff and to (eventually) MAKE MONEY! They're not stupid. And their sign in front of their buildings doesn't say "Non-Profit Organization". They are there for a reason. It's the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS! What supplier in their right mind would NOT attend the Superbowl of Taxidermy?
I don't really even wish to get into another debate over basic Economics. All I was really trying to say was I do not like the way everything at the WTC is bundled together. It's sorta like "Package 125C" when I buy a car. I "save" $200 dollars by getting the A/C, the DVD player, floor mats and 16 cup holders by buying the package for $900. When really all I wanted was the A/C. But they don't offer just the A/C...
Thats the point, I WANTED it to sound far fetched, as the original posts seemed. Bottom line, the World show, like any other, needs to make money. They offer the suppliers room as another way to make that money. Theres enough serious artists that will take the cupholder with the A/C, I guess...
By the way, Marty, I dont take you the "wrong" way either. I recall many debates in here, and I feel we all can debate without any hard feelings.
really a seperate $40.00 fee just to get into the supplier area at the world show or not?
i always thought that the suppliers area was covered in the entrance / competition fees.
but after paying all those fees to compete and join assoc. then tack on another 40.00 just to see the suppliers doesnt really make sense, you would have to order a lot of supplies to save any money.
i am not trying to start an argument or justify any ones position, i just want to know if there really was an extra charge to get into the supplier area.
thank you
There was no "separate" fee. To our show, and I'm not sure WHAT the entrance fee was, but an NTA LIFE member simply paid the $X to get in (the registration fee) which included ALL the seminars and access to ALL the displays and rooms to include the supply room. A non-NTA member had to by $X+50. That covered registration AND a years membership to the NTA which allowed you to all the same benefits that a life member got. If you came on the last day of the show just to see the mounts,, you paid $10 and that only allowed you into the competition area. Security personnel would not allow you into the seminar area or the supply area. It was an observation fee only.
Now we sold several "day" passes to individuals but they also included an NTA membership fee to have total access to the convention. Some people couldn't stay for the whole show and selected several days when specific seminars were being given and instead of paying the full price, paid the "day pass" fees.
We did have one person come to the show who pitched a fit over the policy. He ranted that he'd driven 3 hours just to get there and now unless he "paid blackmail money" to the NTA, he couldn't go into the supply area or the seminars for his $10. We found out later that he wasn't a member of his state association either and had told him they were just a waste of his hard earned money. I guess his 6 hour round trip was a waste as well because he didn't get into any of our other areas.
I don't mean to sound so negative and cynical. Perhaps if I got out more often my perspective might change. You folks regularly see faces - human beings tied to the supply companies. Whereas "trolls" like myself simply are on guard most of the time and see these big, corporate entities instead. Perhaps much of it has to do with our society and the way salespeople shove things down our throats via telemarketers, spammers, snail mail, commercials and whatever else they can think of to get our attention. I get pretty tired of it. And I'm always suspicious of any "deals". Perhaps it's my parents fault - LOL!
Thanks for clarifying your gas comment Bill - I thought it might be a bit exaggerated and a joke. The bad thing about the internet is I can't see your face when you're typing (or is that a good thing? LOL!)
It's been a year or so since the WTC's in Springfield. Going from memory Michael, I believe there was a fee to get into the show to see the competitors. Then there was another fee to get into the suppliers area AND to see the Seminars.
I understand why they do it. They are appealing to the masses. They're gathering up as much revenue as possible to recoup their costs. And it's not compicated or cumbersome. The cafeteria plan (I previously mentioned) with health insurance fails much of the time because when trying to please EVERYBODY, they in effect please NOBODY because of the high costs of trying to please EVERYBODY. And they are human beings. Everybody is different. Whomever organizes an event has the right to do it their way. I may not agree with their way. But I undertand why they do it.
Bill, there's no hard feelings. I am not perfect, I make mistakes. Besides I owe you guys one. You guys made me realize that I'm NOT a LIBERAL - LOL!
makes sense to me, thanks again
I must admit I'd never thought of suppliers as that. I guess since I grew up with McKenzie and knew Kevin's new "tech support" people as they came on, I never thought about it. The WERE people instead of entities. Later on and I went to gatherings, I met TAXIDERMISTS who tended to migrate into businesses. Fortunately for me having been on the NTA board, I almost lost the concept that they WERE businesses. That's really neat that you recognized that. I'd honestly forgotten how that was. NOW, you need to come to some of the shows so you can see that they're just people like me and you anyway. LOL Thanks for that post.
But that's okay.
George, sometimes you're a tough cookie to read. I've read your latest post three times and for the life of me I can't tell if you're rousing me or if your sincere? My guess: Parts of it seem to be sincere, and parts seem to be tongue and cheek - correct?