I'm doing a european mount. Post suggest using 40 volume peroxide. I've got my hands on some industrial strenth 35% peroxide. Heavy duty stuff!
Is this too strong?
Can I dilute it w/ water? At what ratio?
I've read that you can either brush the peroxide on or boil the skull in peroxide & water? Which should I do?
My main concern is that the 35% will eat away at the bone?
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I use 40% peroxide undiluted and it won't harm the bone. You just can't leave in there for days at a time. I usually leave mine in for about 6 to 12 hours. Don't boil your skulls.
That stuff will burn you up... It shouldn't hurt the bone.
35% peroxide is different than 35 volume peroxide, correct? When you say you have used 40% peroxide, was it actually 40% or 40 volume?
Volume 40 is a scientific term, it is only made up of 12% H2O2, Vol 30 is 6% hydrogen peroxide etc..
Here's more facts on H2O2:
3% Hydrogen Peroxide (Drug/Grocery Store Variety)
Made from 50% Super D Peroxide, Diluted. Contains stabilizers - phenol, acetanilide, sodium stanate, tetrasodium phosphate among them.
3% 6% 9% 12% Hydrogen Peroxide (Used by Beauticians for Coloring Hair)Comes in strengths labeled 10,20,30,40 volume. Must have activator added to be used as a bleach. Stabilizers used unknown at this point.
30% Re-Agent Hydrogen Peroxide
Used in medical research. Also contains stabilizers.
30-32% Electronic Grade Hydrogen Peroxide
Used for washing transistors and integrated chip parts before assembly. Stabilizers unknown at this point.
35% Technical Grade Hydrogen Peroxide
Contains a small amount of phosphorus to neutralize any chlorine in the water it is combined with.
35% Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide
(Also 50% Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide)
Used in food products like cheese, eggs, whey products.
Also used to spray inside of foil lined containers for food storage - known as the aseptic packaging system.
90% Hydrogen Peroxide
Used by the military as a source of Oxygen at Cape Canaveral. Used as a propulsion source in rocket fuel.
99.6% Hydrogen Peroxide
This was first made in 1954 as an experiment to see how pure hydrogen peroxide could be.
This is why you store H2O2 in dark, cool place....
Concentrations of hydrogen peroxide solutions are sometimes quoted in molarity, more often in "volume strength." Volume strength is unique to hydrogen peroxide. When hydrogen peroxide decomposes it is converted to water with the liberation of oxygen gas. One litre of "10 volume" hydrogen peroxide will produce 10 litres of oxygen when it decomposes; and one litre of "5 volume" hydrogen peroxide will produce 5 litres of oxygen. So it is simply a convenient way of expressing the solution's strength. But remember that hydrogen peroxide solutions are not stable and decompose easily so that what has been bought as " 10 volume" does not stay at that strength for long.
Im one of those science guys and there was some stuff in there that I didnt know... groovy - thanks for that one! 8)
I use 35% H2O2 on my skulls after maceration and it works great. Be careful with it though. It's clear and looks like water. If you get some on you or under your gloves, you won't feel it right away but then your skin will tingle and it causes minor burns if you don't wash it off. Always wash up anything you think might have come into contact with H2O2, it's also reactive with some other chemicals. The main thing (in my opinion) that makes it a little dangerous, is that it doesn't have a strong odor or color so you don't know when it's on something. I'm not knocking it though, I love using the stuff... I just know some people don't treat it with enough respect.
I use the 20 volume peroxide cream with a little touch of the activator (bleach) powder. I brush it on and the skull is gleaming white in two or three hours. The creamy consistency allows the peroxide to cling to the bone and stay off the antler burrs. Works great for me!
Is the toilet fine, or will this mess up a system or kill cute furry things down the line?
You dont mix hydrogen peroxide with bleach - hydrogen peroxide IS the bleach. There are two types of bleach - chlorine based and oxygen based. It's what does the whitening. Mixing it with "activator" (magensium carbonate) allows you to spread it on so it's not liquid and running everywhere. Disposal is easy as should have been picked up from above... leave it in a clear container with a way to vent gas and the extra oxygen atom (O) will be lost as the weak hydrogen bonds break down in the H2O2, leaving you with H2O... water. Then dump it down the drain. If you use the paste method - then once it is all dry and crusty on your skull - wash it all away.
Magnesium carbonate is a "developer" but in effect, is a "reactant" which enhances the "bleaching" quality of H2O2. Peroxide is an "oxidant" and as far as bleaches go, it IS better than chlorine, but only about half as good as flourine. What makes peroxide so attractive is the safety factor involved. It is cheap and one of the most diverse chemicals as it can be used in a multitude of applications. AGAIN, this is a TAXIDERMY site and such deep discussions into rocket propulsion may be interesting to a FEW, but from the tone of the questions and answers given here, they're more confusing to the masses than "enlightening".
We shouldn't be discouraged from posting technical stuff or hold back from encouraging those that do out of some fear of confusing people who dont want to advance their knowledge.
With the number of posts in the archives already that say "whiten with peroxide" then describes at length how to do it - having a few that go into more depth should not make anyone feel threatenned or confused.
And since these chemical reaction topics relate more directly to taxidermy than all the crap that gets yakked about here.... don't play the "this is a TAXIDERMY site" card with me. Where is that mentality when people ask how to mold car bumpers, talk politics or offer sausage recipes? You'll let that slide but get on someone for getting too techy about peroxide whitening on skulls? LOL! Please!
To anyone wanting to post tecnnical stuff about chemical reactions - until KEN says not to - go right ahead - there are plenty here who appreciate it.
No one is "discouraging" anything and let's not get into that "dark ages" crap. Everything in life is directly related and revolves around Chemisty, but when I have a headache, I don't have to know what acetylsalicylic acid is before I pick up a bottle of aspirin. For those people who DO know this or want to know it that's fine, but as I said, this is a TAXIDERMY net. In taxidermy, measuring pH is necessary during most tanning, but I know of several people who emailed me or called me and asked why, when they picked their hides up out of the pickle, their hands and arms burned. OOPS! "I didn't know I needed rubber gloves." We have questions here about how to install antler caps to plaques, for cripes sakes.
If nothing else, the last election SHOULD have taught people like you a valuable lesson about today's society. No, not how you voted, but that many search engines PICKED UP THE TAXIDERMY NET AS A SOURCE OF POLITICAL INFORMATION. Today's society is lazy. Hell, they won't even look at OUR archives, but if they go to Google, guess where the most recent information on "hydrogen peroxide" will lead people now. So all I'm saying is that when we digress into areas of "interest" without most of us know our asses from holes in the ground, there goes some semblance of responsibility to insure what we've said is correct. OR at least I FEEL THAT WAY.
Most people know that there is peroxide they buy at the drug store and peroxide they buy at the beauty supply store. All work in varying degrees and they want to know which one works during which application. Any more than that is sometimes "too much information" in my opinion.
Keep posting the great info guys!
Its the guys like George who make the R&D guys money right? They could be figuring this stuff out themselves, but that closed minded attitude of "when I have a headache, I don't have to know what acetylsalicylic acid is before I pick up a bottle of aspirin" that makes a perfect market niche for ya! So when you develop products and techniques that do skulls better than the antiquated "sal soda n simmer - then peroxide", it's the guys like George who will either be putting out products that can't match their competitors or be buying your products and putting your kids through college. All because you took the time to understand what was really going on well enough to improve on things and weren't contect to keep doing the same thing that 50 guys before you did.
George you like to use the expression "dont reinvent the wheel" but where would be if no one improved on it?
Either keep up or move out of the way - but when these guys post great info like this - don't be the one to hold up the flow...
Push onwards guys - keep sharing that info =)
You just don't get it, do you? And that's fine as long as you understand that you just don't get it. Your problem is you think you're an "expert" in a microcosm of this industry. There's a lot to be said about a big fish in a small pond, but your problem is you don't understand you're standing in a puddle and not even a pond. So don't come off with that me-better-than-you bullsh1t. I've forgotten more than you'll probably ever learn and that's a sad litany on MY part. I've done probably more than my share of public speaking and the overriding rule I always demand of myself it "Speak to the level of your audience". Your pandering about "bring it on" is just inflated ego talking, because sooner or later, the Peter Principle comes into play. (You might need to look that term up.) The trouble with having a pelican mouth and a hummingbird ass is that all things come to an end someplace. I enjoy enlightening conversation as more or more than most, but I can see when I'm becoming boring. I'm there now. You were there 3 posts back.
You of all people are gonna say someone else has an inflated ego ESPECIALLY after saying "I have forgotten more than you will probably ever learn?"
You claim to speak to the level of the audience.. your problem with that thought is that you dont know what the full audience here is! There are a lot of tech minded people here, even if they don't post regularly (or at all). Who are you to tell them their posts don't belong or that they should dumb it down for the ones who arent interested? Let these people post whatever they want George. If ya dont like their info - cry to Ken. If he feels its inappropriate he'll remove it because of 'how dangerous' it is - LOL! Maybe while yer crying to him ya can ask him to stop selling those scary sharp scalpel blades on the website too?
Good info Tomdes - don't let Georges attitude and gruffness disuade you from posting more practical and useful info like that just because he can't see or at least won't acknowledge it's applications. It would be a shame if people stopped posting good info like yours for fear of being jumped on by him... just ignore him when he's acting like this.. I do...
Yes of course I can be an a$$ sometimes - I won't deny that for a moment. You can be too - we all can be - we've seen that on many an occasion. For us to comment on these facts and behave in public the way we have is innapropriate and disrespectful to our host and for that I appologzie to Ken, WASCO, to you George and anyone else bored enough to still be reading this.
H2O2 mixed with a strong base can be a bomb in the making! Wiz had stated that people tend to handle it with too little respect. I work at a chemical plant and if you mix H2O2 with Sodium Borohydride, you would only hope to burn your fingers a little. The two mixed together make a nice purple flame with explosive conditions. Also peroxide soaked towels or rags after drying will self ignite. Peroxide has two parts of the fire tetrahedron- fuel and Oxygen. If you have towels that are soaked, I suggest putting them in a double-lined plastic garbage bag, and add a little water to the bag to keep it moist to prevent fires.
Where is the best place to get H2O2 and some info on skull taxidermy? Thank you for your help
40% Gel can be purchased at your local beauty salon. Search archives for more information on the actual taxidermy portion of your question. There is alot of useful info to be had.