any of the Pros that want to read my ramblings about the Archives
as I wake this mourning and reflect back over the past few days.
After referring some people to the archives lately, (figured that was the best way I could help), because I am a beginner and Knew I had seen their answers in the archives, answered by some of the pros here. After yesterdays researching I don't think I will ever do that again, It takes forever to search for a simple answer.
I know that research isn't easy, and George will refer to me as a "Gasoline Ass"(LOL) but you should not have to weed through garbage to get your answer and the archives are full of it. Is there a solution; I don't know, mine will be to keep my nose in the Breakthrough books and Mags as well as the Taxidermy Today mags and learn to read reference photos better. You Pros that may still be reading did it without the archives, or some Web site, no matter how good it is, why can't I? Just so you Know I really enjoy this site and feel as though I have finally found what I am supposed to be doing by trying to become a taxidermist.
The main reason for this post is while weeding through the archives yesterday, I ran across some lady that had all but ruined her brothers First mountain lion hide by using the archives and picking up on the wrong information, or at least the order of the steps she should have taken.
Then I run across a post where some guy is saying you can lock the hairs in on a questionable deer cape by boiling it. Now as he said, I may be closed minded, but the only thing I have ever heard of boiling a skin for is to test the strength of the tan.
So if your are just getting started, know this.If you want to be a taxidermist You can do it in less than a year, but If you want to be a taxidermy artist your learning may never stop. Good luck in your endeavors and never forget to thank the persons who get you there.
Thank you for taking the time to listen.
Return to Beginners Category Menu
i f i havent said it lately and i dont think it is said often enough
thank God for this site and Ken Edwards
i dont think you can become a full fledged taxidermist from reading
anything by itself
but that said i have a few comments or observations to add
the archives have good and bad information at the same time
now if your starting new and dont have a reference to begin with
how the hell do you start
most know someone who they observed then they got the bug and one thing led to another
a experienced person has a reference of trial and error to adjust procedures and technique
but videos and catalogs are also good reference
when i started reading this site and recognized the contrabutions of some really great taxidermist that after time go into the archives
i realized what a great treasure it was
you know when your digging for gold
the golds not just sitting on the ground
you have to look a while
the information and things i have gotten from to many people i can think of is a great blessing
people have sweat ,blood and tears in the archives
dig a little and almost anyone can learn something valuable
i never take them for granted
i know even after twenty plus years there are people posting that have forgotten more than i know
paul e
Believe me the archives have taught me some good techniques. I to am very grateful, and will continue to use them( after rereading my post I may have implied that I wont, I am bad to hit the submit button before I proof read) They're invaluable, but I have seen way more then the two archived post I mentioned and wanted other beginners to realize that not everything in the archives belongs.
Take for example: Me as a beginner has a deer that I am worried about, I search the archives for the best way to handle it, and after reading all day long I am getting more worried about it I don't have stop rot on hand cant figure out what a pickle is cause I am not going that route any way, because I have seen were DP is cheaper and will work. Then I run across this post about boiling. I don't read what others have to say about it, sounds good, I am in a hurry, times ticking,and the guy that showed him used it 100's of times. If I didn't have any common sense and was tired I would say lets give it a try, its on a taxidermy site right. When that skin turns to a gooey mess not having any common sense who would I be mad at? This was just an example I wasn't saying that anyone would but then again maybe someone already has or was just pulling legs. No one is more gullible then I am.
No doubt I could go to the archives and learn to mount a Deer. If that is the only source I used would it be right? I could get lucky and have picked up on the right techniques or I could be like the lady with the Mountain Lion and a hide that is falling apart. And your point was what I wanted to make "I don't think you can become a full fledged taxidermist from reading anything by itself". Even when you ask a question and only get one response here, you should not take it as the Bible and should research to make sure you have the correct info.
Thanks Paul for reading
and deciphering the good from the bad takes experience.(Of course thats the vicious circle isnt it? trying to gain the experience to know whats good ect ect.....) The point I'm trying to make, IMHO as I am a beginner as well, is you must use the archives with all the other tools at your disposal. The other tools at your disposal are the members of your state organization, members of the national organization and the publications that go with them. Breakthrough is awsome and definately indespensible. Conventions/competitions are also tools at your disposal. Make phone calls to taxidermists in your area and see if any are willing to answer some questions. All are good tools and will assist you in learning whats good practice and whats bad. Access to this knowledge definately costs $$, but what you learn pays you back many times over. I have put much on hold until I know I have gained enough knowledge to progress forward with whatever project I choose. That works for me. What works for you is up to you to decide. You appear to have a good view on things given your observations, and thats to your advantage. Paul makes good points as well. Patience coupled with good research equals a good start. After joining our state organization and spending time with the members, the things I have read came to life and all clicked. It's worth the time, money and effort if you really want to pursue this field. Don't let the info in the archives overwhelm you, just experiment with it and see what works for you. If you get confused in an area because of too much info posted - ask for clarification I would like to think that those here would gladly answer what works best for them. You are correct don't forget those who help ya.
Just my 02 cents. Sounds like your goin in the right direction to me.
Mac
I know what you are saying, as over the past few years I've been in the same boat. To really know how to use this site, you will need some basic knowledge at hand, (a base to start with). I've used videos, taxidermy magazines, and also called a few of the pros on here for advice (thanks George and others for some great advice).
Anyway, it's like everything else you do..if you go at at it blind, it's hard to decipher between the bs and the right way to do something. One thing that really helps in here is to know the names of guys that know what they are doing, and include that in your search.
I'm sure you've probably figured out the same things by now, and I agree with some of the replies to your post that stated that this is a great tool, and has been EXTREMELY valuble to me in times of question, and also in research. I've lost count of the times that my wife has walked by and said, "You're on that taxidermy site..again?"
So thanks to all who have provided the information in here to help us become better at what we do!
Good Luck in your pursuit!
Cause the dumasses who come on here without going there first or who ignore that BIG WHITE BOX on the opening page that asks "What do you want to know" and just blurt out their STUPID questions. Then guys like me refer them to the archives and you get that posting automatically in the archives. Worse, some other yahoo comes on and answers the guy AGAIN with the same information and it goes into the archives. Then when someone with half a brain follows the instructions and actually types in his or her question, he goes to the archives and finds THREE posts. One is just telling him to check the archives, and the other two are giving the same answer. Then along comes someone with a NEW answer and it kicks in. Then someone comes in and cries, "I looked at the archives but I found 2 that said do it one way and the other that said do it differently. Which way is correct?" And that brings out ONE MORE ENTRY INTO THE ARCHIVES.
Now Joey, you just posted this thread, correct. Guess where it will be in 30 days? Wanna take a stab? In the ARCHIVES, OF COURSE. Now I just clicked the SEARCH icon and typed in YOUR title "For other beginners". Do you know that there are already 2430 threads stored with those words used in them? Now, thanks to you, there are 2431. One more piece a garbage to sort through! LMAO
The archives gets very confusing at times and this was nothing but my thoughts as I reviewed my past few days. I believe that history is to teach us to make the future stronger and every so often I will look at my own history be it 1day or 1 year and try to make tomorrow better.
I am a member of my state as well as the NTA and the NTA is money well spent, My State association has a lot to be desired but it may get better one day, maybe one day I will know how to help make it better.
Just don't read to much into this post, like I said it was just to ramble while I was waking up this mourning. I may awake tomorrow and wish I had not even started it.
One more thing. I use to think I had to only read what certain people wrote, now I realize there are a lot of good names that use to post that no longer do. So don't discredit someone because you don't recognize the name as one of the guys that are here now. I am thankful to everyone here even though I don't show it sometimes. I promise you this no one could possibly spend as much time as I do in the archives and refer to them every time I start something, if for nothing more then to make sure I am not missing the boat. This year alone I have nearly 800 hours in them, roughly 20 per week just archives, add another 10 or so to that to get my logged in time on this site. man I need a life! Nah, I love this stuff more then you will ever know!
The End!
Joey A
I will sort through this garbage. damn if I do and damn if I don't.
I paused to think if i should or not submit this. I decided if George gets offended it probably wont be the last time. I will be here for a while. Thanks George, I haven't even though to start going through the "for you Beginners" post yet. There goes the Hunting season.LOL
Really George, Thank you for every word you have typed here, even though some of your stuff in the archives gets confusing. just so you know I did start to put this in the current events post so it wouldn't go in the archives but figured I would get blasted there too so what the hay!
If it's confusing to you, just think what it's like for me! LOL
That dumba$$ as you put it might be a young child trying to learn taxidermy or may not be to good with a computer.If it bothers you that much maybe you can find a web site full of experts like you.Give me the web address and i will be glad to keep my dumb(and proud of it)a$$ off it.Its bad enough that we have to put up with the anti's.It puts us all in a bad lite.
I've only mounted a few deer heads...a very green beginner who only wants to tinker with the art of taxidermy for my own pleasure. I do however read this site every week...just to soak up what knowledge I can from others. George, I thought that your reply to Joey was extremly rude to him, and any of us "dumbasses" as you refer to us. I don't know you from Adam, I don't know if you are a world class taxidermist, or just some loon that's wanting to be like the freak in Silence of the Lambs....it doesn't matter to me, you really need to lighten up on the beginners. Who would want you to answer their question anyway with "help" from people like yourself? Why do you take it so personal that there are tens of thousands of threads to questions already answered? Are you on the payroll of Taxidermy.net and are in charge of the archives? Are you storing all the information on YOUR computer and you are pissed that it's eating into your hard drive space? What gives? If you don't want to answer a persons question, than why are you on the Beginners forum anyway?
Lighten up man....don't be that greasy 4th grade science teacher that wont answer your questions. That's the purpose of a forum, to talk to others who are WILLING to listen and HELP....not degrade and call names for only using this tool as it's meant to be used. Gesh!
At least the animals you work on have thicker skins than you do. I'm always nice to "Beginners", but if you use the archives, you'll find that THOSE aren't usually beginner questions as there are 11 other categories bunched in there. And I get sick of that "young child on the computer" crap. That's a curtain to hide behind. At 12, I was getting kicked in the ass and out the door for asking a question so I learned that taxidermy is dominated by adults and I should be very careful dealing with them. They didn't shuck and jive like I wanted to and they didn't play well with others. If it's YOUR child you're speaking of, then why are YOU allowing such a young and impressionable soul to come on the internet with the flotsam and jetsam that are only a keystroke away. The trouble with this industry and the world today is the poor excuse "it's for the children", when in fact it's simply for your own guilt complex. I've said before that I suffer fools badly. I guess whiners fit right there with fools.
And NO Travis, I don't work for WASCO or the Taxidermy net. Only two people have remained on this site since it's inception and that's Bill Yox and me. Bill's the world class taxidermist, I'm your worst nightmare who's simply a commercial hack down the street from you. And stop pandering to what's wrong with this industry tying back to me personally. We don't have respect because we don't act like professionals. I can see some of you in your every day job asking some of the questions I've seen here over the years (and yes, I DO know if they've been asked or answered before, so why should I or anyone else be obligated to answer them for you or anyone else since you're too damned lazy to look them up first?) A prime example is below. A person askes "What is Dacron". He was given a source to look it up and got ignorant that it wasn't what he wanted. After dealing with a few thousand just like that, many of us become "snippy". I remember when Old Fart was such a nice and quiet soul. You aren't the first fool we've met here so don't inflate your ego and think we're picking on YOU exclusively.
I don't THINK Joey took my remark as a slam. He seems rather bright for a beginner and if he continues will make a great taxidermists. The thin skinned ones fall by the way side (or mount birds....LMAO...couldn't help myself), but if you want to learn, it's here. Joey was remarking about the garbage in the archives and he's right. There IS lots of it there and I was explaining how it got there. Now we've added even more to it.
Guys thanks I guess, but if I though George was being rude to me then I would have told him. I will be the first to admit, I can't match wits with George, but I have started to be able to read between the lines of what he is saying. I don't even mind if he is rude to me in the first place, some of my best laughts come from his replies to some of those Dumbass Questions he is talking about. IMHO the ones where people can't read simple dirrections for starters.
He will without a doubt be the first one to answer a question to something I ask if he knows I really can't find the answer. Sometimes I will ask a question I want a "Gasoline ass" answer to(I still laugh at that each time I run across it in the archives)and usually I find the answer to it before someone has the chance to reply and I think Damn, I just added to the archives for nothing, kinda like this thread. Guys ya'll have a good one and don't take things out of wack, it will sure make you happier.
BTW I did wake this mourning wishing I had not started this thread. I do thank you all for the time to read and post your thoughts Though.
Joey Arender
And cheat me out of an opportunity to piss a couple people off? Come on Bud, give me a hustle here. LMAO. It was a good post in that it explains how the archives DO get cluttered with superfluous information. You done good! No regrets now.
George... What on Earth was that rant you went on in response to my reply? Dear God man, the point to my post was quite simple, if you, or anyone else doesn't want to answer a post...than don't. We don't need someone talking to us like we are children...or the name calling you enjoy partaking in. It's not a matter of having thick skins, or pissing people off....it's a matter of being polite and respectful to people. No one is "obligated" as you put it to answer a question, it's a matter of passing on information if you so desire...not to post a rude reply which points them to the Archives.
After trying to read through some of your ramblings it seems clear to me that you have issues way deeper than how many items are log jammed in the archives. You need help...
Have your fun George!LOL
I just don't get that guy or his hatefulness towards...everything! I am a News Photographer, which there are tons of videography forums out there that I look at. If someone wants to know something that is basic knowledge, I don't scold them for asking and call them a dumbass...nor do I regurgitate a response demanding that they check the archives. If I don't wanna answer I just don't... That's all I was saying.
Travis, But you aren't seeing what George is saying. Look at it like this, If someone came to the other forums your are talking about, and there is archives, what would most say to the beginner or anyone else that would ask something like: I bought a 35 mm cam. and want to know how to put a memory stick in it, Do you just put it in the film slot or what? surely no one would ever ask any dumb ? like that, but if they did every week and that was the only Forum photography site, It would get redundant, and I think it has here. If there was more taxidermy forums to go to then the dumb Questions would get spread out and be easier to skip over.
I hope you can make out the point that I am making and grow to realize that George and others here have answered most all basic Questions and they are there to be found in the archives you just have to be able to weed the answer you are looking for and be willing to put some effort and time into it. If you have Questions that have not been asked or if someone has a better way they do it These Guys will help, if you have respect for they way they try to toughen you up a little; so what, at least they offer their advice.
Travis I have only been at this taxidermy stuff for one year, I have been trying to get started for 5 or more. The guys where I am from told me to get the books and just do it, I find this site through a back door and went the route I chose and this year I could take In customers mounts, in fact my goal for this year is 10 WT, 1-2 turkeys, no ducks,and 10-15 fish we will see where it goes. I know I can do a good job for a customer because I will put the time in, to make it good. The reason I know I can, is not because the other guys around me do bad work, I think they put out what the sportsmen are use to getting. I am going to try and give the sportsman more then they expect, and I will do it with the help from the guys like George who are very unselfish and answer the questions beginner and non beginners alike have. Look at Cecil, he does one on one training and still ask questions about fish taxidermy. Some may say, and this guy is a teacher! I say, well there is a guy that knows learning never stops.
Travis in the year that I have been here, I have seen more then you tell George to Quit being a ass, hell I have done it too, it just doesn't do any good or so one would think at first, but stick around and you will start to realize the truth. He is a ass most of the time but the man Knows Taxidermy. Yeah; that's right, I do think He is sometimes a ass and he Knows it, this wasn't one of them. When you realize this you will stop complaining about the way they choose to answer questions or respond and will be thankful that they do, even if you don't like the answer you get.
if you think about it or read my original post wrong, you could say that I was being a ass to WASCO for even hosting the archives, now couldn't you! Think about it. and I wasn't, is the answer. but some could say I was.
Travis, I said It not to long ago; I picked it up in a non Taxidermy related seminar, "Never use a hammer to swat a fly off of someones' head, you may drop it". That someone may be the very person you need help from one day.
What I mean is, click on beginners forum and scroll down to the bottom and begin with August 14, 1998 and then READ every post from there to now. You will realize quite quickly the amount of information that has been redundantly placed within the archives, as well as the differing opinions placed within. It may take a month of Sundays to finish up, but the excercize will be worth it, and likely you will come out with a different opinion of Mr. Roof.
Only those who have a devote love of taxidermy will put forth the efforts to answer as many questions as George has - especially since he has no supply business to push, nor is he looking for notoriety to help his judging or seminar business, as I don't think he does either. George is like to demanding older father that most people SHOULD have had, some one to push you to excel and call you a dumbass when needed. Your efforts here are indeed dumbass. Joey has been around enough to be aware of how things work and to know how George is. As a photographer, would you go onto a photo forum and call the god-father of the site a rude greasy 4th grade teacher.
Joey, I will place a few comments in relation to your original comment. It is hard to work through the archives but it was much harder before there was the orange search icon and the use of google to sort through the posts. Your suggestion to focus on a particular forum poster is a good one but you must be very specific. For example if you thought great knowledge could be gained from Cecil Baird, you could search on "Cecil fish" - unfortunately probably 50% or more of the 1200 posts don't even mention taxidermy. So if you have a particular fish or question about an area such as a fin you could type in "Cecil fish walleye fin" and you will limit the responces down to only 47 - hopefully one isn't political in nature. (Just kidding Cecil)
There are a number of great contributors who have left the forums completely and I don't really have a good handle on why. Some may have just got tired of answering the same old questions over and over, some may have grown tired of the bickering on the forums, or those that egg on others just for jollies. Some may be so busy they no longer have time. Mr. Edwards, if you read this it might be an interesting "best of the forums" if you could email some of the great contributors who just disappeared from the forums and print the replies - though many may not be printable. Honestly, the effort may be a way to try to improve this forum.
Perhaps this forum is ready for a "files" or "recommended reading" section. Nothing can completely replace magazines like Breakthrough or Taxidermy Today, nor the Breakthrough Manuals sold through WASCO and others, but the amount of information in the archives on this site is almost hard to believe. I will wager that the number of printed words in the archives is larger than the number of words in all the books and magazine articles dealing with taxidermy since the printed word came out. The only problem is that a great deal replicate the same questions and answers.
Joey, if you have read the archives much you will know whose name to place into the search engine, even if the poster quit contributing. For example for cast information I would recommend Raven, Cur, and newbirdman as having good info. And of course anything the Taxidermologist ever writes is the gospel truth.
It has never dawned on me to search that way before now, Thank you I will give it a try. I will even seaarch for the truths you do so tell.LOL
George is a a$$ before; if, anyone reads it. I just was saying he has the right to be if he wants to, or at least i think. The earliest post i recall from the archives is in '99, so for a man who has been here that long, out of pure love for what he does, if someone gets ticked off with his remarks then tough, get over it and move on.
yeah, I know I should really start to proof read or at least explain myself better to begin with.
FYI,
For anyone that wants to improve on their search hit ratio, use quotes to join words together, in the example above, George found 2430 hits for the words > for other beginners <, but if you search for "for other beginners" with the quotes you only get 11 hits. This site is truly priceless. Thanks Ken! and everyone that contributes.