i need help, i just unthawed my deer cape and went to test fit . when i did i had slippage everywhere! a big spot in the low brisket area and a dime size spot in the throatpatch, other spots i the backend of the cape.my question is what could have caused it.it is my cape so i know it was treated properly,i applied stop rot on the cape before and after caping ,turned split then put in freezer.i took it out of the freezer rough fleshed then put it in krowtan followed directions took it out after 4 days final flesh ,wash put back in freezer to await the form.took it out of freezer at 3 this morn, went to test fit 3 pm and found the slippage.i did not unfold when i took it out of freezer as i was unable to.when i unfolded it i noticed a large amount of water, do you think that might be the problem,hide too saturated maybe cause this?i put an inner tube in it blew it up ,then put more stop rot on the areas,put a fan on it to help rid some of the moisture.any other ideas or solutions? all comments would be appreciated greatly!thanks in advance.
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I don't know either. I recently had some wet capes sent back and when I dethawed them they were really heavy and drowning in water. All of them had some hair slip problems also.
I would agree with Curtis, a hide that is wet for too long is prone to slippage even if you did everything right. I'm not familiar with Krowtan because I haven't tried it but when I tan I always make sure that I dry off the hair side as much as I can before tossing it back in the freezer or working it (ie. pulling it over a form). When I do taxi it I treat it carefully especially around the facial areas.On the bright side fortunately it was your own cape and not a customer's...
Kevin,
You didn't mention if you neutralized after the Krowtann soak but I'll assume you did since you said you followed directions. If you removed large amounts of tissue for your final fleshing you might have had to re-neutralize as stated in the directions. One other thought..when you were done with it and ready to pop it in the freezer to await the arrival of your form did you let it hang for a few hours before re-freezing? That might be where the excess moisture came from. Danimal is right about keeping the fur side fairly dry before re-freezing. I let my skins hang for a couple of hours and then blot any excess moisture out of the fur with a towel before gently rolling it back up for the freezer.
out wet hides in a washing machine. Gets them really dry, & they dont end up stretched 7 feet long from hanging.
i hate to make you write it all
but that might be the only way we can figure out what happened
i can tell you its not the stop-rot or the tann
if you had not stop-rot treated it i have seen a few times if you dont pull the cape out daily with krowtann and swirl the tann around
sometimes areas dont get tanned
but i can tell you if you stop-rot treated and did it according to directions and the tann to directions this shoild not have happened
so if you dont mind can you elaborate a LOT
then we can probably narrow it down
Bill is right on this one.IF its a tube cut slide it over the agitator hair out and let'r spin.
as far as the krowtan, i swirled the cape around acouple of time daily.i also took the cape out once daily and stretched it then repositioned .this is the new whitetail krowtan. when i neutralized,i used baking soda,the directions said i could use it instead. they also stated that i had to use double the amount if i did. i used 12 tbs instead of 6 tbs sodium bicarbinate. i noticed that afterwards the skin had a spongy feel like it was full of air. i had never had one feel like that before. this was the first time that i had used the new krowtan. the directions for neutralizing were different than for the old. after that i washed, let hang for 3 hrs, then final fleshed. i then shampoo, let hang ,then toweled off excess. i then folded and put in freezer. everything seemed fine at that point. hair was tight.
you may have a chemical reaction that caused the slip
Glen has added some info on this subject in the past
the double the amount sugestion has me a little puzzled
i thought all that stuff was basically the same
all soaps are not created equal and some can give you a reaction that can cause hair to slip
i swithced to kemal 4 for all my washing
when i used it i gave a quick wash
no more than a couple of minutes
i rinsed well,very well
and did all the rest as directed(i did not use the tide)
thats how i did the katrina whitetail after the stop-rot was used
now that one went 11 days without power in the freezer
it came out fine
pics are on Glens hidetanning.net if you want to see a pic
i dont know what else to add
tanning always has risk
but mixing chemicals can blow the pouch till you get repeated good results from the same chemicals
one other thing i noticed in your original post you stated that the cape had a lot of water
thats sounds a little off
i like to spin or towel dry pretty well before i freeze
i never leave a cape wet longer than necessary
paul e
I made a post on this once before, and could not find it in the Archives. I even tried Google's site index and couldn't turn it up.
These guys have all provided some sound tips, but now let me turn some light bulbs on all over the house.
When acids are reacted with sodium bicarbonate, one of the two end products produced as a result of the action will yield either carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide (depending on the acid) and WATER.
When you "neutralize" in a water solution, you see all the carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide bubbles being produced, but you do not SEE the WATER.
When you pulled that cape out of the freezer, you had reversed the condition. You now have the cape in a gaseous environment, so you do not see carbon dioxide or monoxide escaping, but instead you see WATER! See how simple?
In simplest terms, most likely, your acid to bicarb ratios are screwed up. This can cover a whole lot of variables, and create problems. Most likely, sodium hydroxide has been produced as another product of the reaction, and has been contained in spots, and that is most likely the caustic created to cause the slip.
Also, get rid of the shampoo. That adds way too many donors to react with acid, especially if you don't know what each of those ingredients do when reacted with an acid.
i am thankfull for all of the input and advice.glen, i thought that baking soda was sodium bicarb but one of the lines in the q & a on the krowtan directions specifically states to use double the amount when using baking soda. so do you think that was the reason for the hide having a gaseous feeling to it? either way i seemed to have slowed down ,if not stopped the slippage. stop rot. and have mounted the cape , cape looks good. i was lucky enough to have ordered a form that has a sharp ofset on the right side and the slippage in the armpit and lower brisket were not on the finished mount. the slippage in the throat was carefully repaired also. so i am crossing my fingers that it will turn out well in the end.
Just to add something: Any water contains bacteria that cause slippage, therefore use as little as necessary and ALWAYS use it with an antibacterial soap or supplement. NEVER freeze any skins wet with water, let it drip out and use an alcohol based liquid on the leatherside before freezing (woodalcohol and even a good windshieldwasher liquid are excellent for this) , so it won't grow bacteria during the thawing process.