I just finished shaving a small bear that I killed last spring, and have spent several minutes degreasing myself, but now I need some advice regarding the degreasing of the bear.
I have utilized the orange search button, but as this is my first bear still have a few questions.
The bear has been salted, shaved, pickled and is now back in the pickel. I have on hand Epo-Grip Blood out degreaser and Dawn dish detergent. My plan is to neutralize the cape and then degrease. I understand the whole pickel/acid alkaline/detergent issue, I think.
My question is this. After degreasing should I put the cape back in the pickle or is this I bad idea? I ask because after three days the skin just dosen't seem to be pickled as well as the deer capes I have done in the past. I am hoping that after a degreasing the pickle will work better.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Chris
Return to Beginners Category Menu
I and many others have been taxidermists for decades and we still tell EVERYONE that the very best way to process a bear is to allow professionals to do it. Degreasing is the primary reason. The pH's are so fine when you use a soap that you can create as many problems as you cure. For the life of me, I don't understand what anyone stands to prove by doing bears in their shops. And that's NOT just MY opinion.
i do all my bears in my shop, its not rocket science. buy a good degreaser from any of the supply compainies and follow the directions. i use the degreaser that reasearch sells, shave well then soak in the degreaser for an hour and then back in the pickle until ready to tan.
.. as a wholesale rugmaker, every single home tanned bear that has come through my shop doors,has been a greasy nightmare. The hide had to be washed with a degreaser several times and still appeared greasy and loftless on the hair side. And the leather always dries hard like rawhide,not soft and supple as it should be. I always highly recommend professional tanning on bears!
what was i thinking! my shop tanned bears are very greasy and stiff as a board, mabey i should sell my tumblers and my degreaser's and start using a good tannery. Sorry mary, ill change my evil ways!
if i changed ruggers, you would not take my bears?
... just so glad I was able to make you finally see the light and instill in you,the desire to change your evil ways! LOL
Lee, why take it personally? Even "professional tanners" are human and you may have an exceptionally good method of doing it along with the dedication of those tannery people. BUT you are the EXCEPTION. I haven't seen the numbers Mary has, but as I said and she backed up, I'm not the only one who feels that way.
personal opionion is, leather is leather, one just needs an extra step in the process. no offense taken.
... I would welcome the opportunity to rug one of "your" home tanned bears. So we may finally put an end to beating this poor dead horse. If indeed your tans come out as wonderfull as you state, then I will be more than willing to see if we can arrange for George to get you in the next NTA seminar line-up to teach your techniques to others. I can also intervene on your behalf and see if Larry Blomquist would be willing to let you do a ,as many part as needed, article on your methodology of home tanning bears in Breakthrough Magazine.
Please do seriously know, I mean absolutly no disrespect to you. But if you have a method of home tanning bears, for rugmaking and or mounting, that renders them squeeky clean with soft, supple, well neutrlized and oiled leather and a soft, clean ,luxurious hair coat I will be your number one advocate. Your knowledge will be a great asset to share with the Indusrty.
I am not above the humility to be corrected ,as all I speak of is by my own past experience. I embrace a continued education and the opportunity to possibly learn something from you.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards,
Mary
I'll know better next time, professional tanner it is for all future bears. However; I still have THIS bear staring up at me from my pickle bath.
So... my tentative plan is to neutralize, then degrease as best I can with Epo-Grip blood out degreaser then (and this is my question) can I safely put the cape back into a pickle to get a better pickle result?
Thanks, by the way, for the input.
Chris
im not going to send my poorly tanned bears to poor quality rug lady! Ill keep sending them where i have been for years, at least i get a quality rug job to go along with my poor tanning job.
Nothing like a little slander to make you look intelligent, is there? So why not tell all of us here who does so much better rug work than Mary does? Or do you do that yourself as well? Sounds as if you're just admitting to what Mary said and now you're trying to bluster some of us into believing it.
Chris, I'd strongly suggest you put your hide back in the pickle. Then contact Bruce Rittel and buy some of his degreasing SOLVENT. It THINK it goes right into the pickle and can stay there without affecting your pH. Bloodout/Degreaser is a very strong SOAP and will change the pH of your pickle.
I'll take your advice. I does make more sense using something that is compatable with the pickle.
Thanks to all.
...sorry to hear you are not up to my offer. Your response speaks volumes! By the way, I do not think my rugging ability is what is in question here. One does not have an 18 year old successful rugmaking business ,which is solely supported by other taxidermists, if they do not provide a quality product. Not that I need to defend myself to you,by any means. I have never personally slandered you or your business, I have only given my opinion on home tanning -vs-professional tanning of bears for rugmaking.
I am truely sorry the Industry is going to miss out on the opportunity to learn the art of home tanning bears from you. I agree with George that there may be some home tanners ,of bears, that are doing an exceptional job, as you say you are. But once again you will not give me and others the opportunity to educate ourselves differently. I will continue then ,to stand by what I have always said,"professional tanning is the best way to go for a bear skin that is going to be made into a quality finished rug"!
By the way,I handle hundreds of bears a year,from a large variety of tanneries across the nation. How many do you handle a year?
If you ever change your mind, you know where to find me.
Kindest regards,Lee,
Mary
you are both quick to assume my tans are less than satsifactory so why cant i assume that marys work is less than satsifactory? seems to be fairsided to me, what say you?
You see MOST of us know who Mary is and what she's become noted for and the quality she's insisted on for years. YOU on the otherhand don't give us any idea of who YOU are or what your definition of "quality" is all about. Mary offered you a venue that I can assure will work. You email me and I'll insure you get a seminar next year's NTA Convention in Louisville. Mary's usually there every year and then she and the rest of us can judge on our own. Now that sound's considerably more "fair" than what you posted.
bacially you and mary are the taxidermy pro's and every other joe blow taxidermist will always be 2nd rate unless they give a seminar at the NTA? Well i will guarentee you that there are highly skilled Taxidermist's around that have never been to the NTA much less give a ceminar at one! I never once bragged about my work and i dont need to prove anything to anyone. espicially you two! I simply answerd Chris's question and then mary jumped in saying EVERY home tanned bear she has seen in 18 years was a greasy nightmare. (i find that hard to believe)
And just because i wont send mary one of my rugs to do dosent mean that i do second rate work at my shop. Mechanics are the same way "never attempt to replace a tranny yourself, it needs to be done proffesionally!" B.S. Tanneries do 1st rate work, but that dosent mean that someone else cant!
Once again you have taken comments and opinions personally. As both George and I have stated there are exceptions to most everything. You asked me if I would turn your work away, I told you send one my way. This will give you the opportunity to see my work first hand and I will be able to work with your quality home tanned bear.
I have offered you 2 venues to share your knowledge with the rest of the Industry. I told you before,I am very serious and mean no disrespect to you. I am a supporter of continued education! Each of us are never to old to learn something new. If you have a technique that could greatly improve the quality of home tanned bears, please share it. We will all benifit by it.
I have assumed nothing. All I have posted is factual as to my experiences. You seem to be the only one making assumptions here.
I am not the one back peddling, slandering, and declining any of the services being offered.
My offer still stands.
Kindest regards,
Mary
no big secret to share, pickle, shave well, degrease well, tan well, oil well and tumble well. i have never slanderd you more than you did me and i damn shure did no backpeddling! of course im declining your services, im shure you do great work, i have used the same rugger for 8 years and i am happy and am not going to switch. im shure you have the same type of customers. can you honestly tell me in 18 years every in-shop tanned bear has been a greasy nightmare?
I usually do not accept home tanned bears. But the ones that have slid in under the radar,over the years, have indeed arrived in an unpleasant state. The hair coats have been dirty and greasy. Most have had meat left on them in some areas. After they have been degreased , washed and stretched, they indeed have dryed very rigid. After rugging, they never have the suppleness and clean lusterurous look to the hair.
In speaking with the taxidermists who have shipped the rug,the higher percentage of them had home tanned very few bears. I have referred them to a tannery for bears and they have responded gratefully for that.
Now, it sounds like you have home tanned many bears with great success and I,very honestly,along with many other taxidermists, would love for you to share your knowledge. That's what this site is all about..sharing our experiences. I can only share what I am knowledgable of, as I have.
I ,in no way what so ever, have ever slandered you personally or tried to disrespect you or your knowledge.
If you do have some insight that could be benificial to other home tanners,when it comes to bear, I myself, would sure be gratefull if you shared it. It doesn't have to be in the form of a seminar at the NTA. That was just a suggestion to get the info to large masses of taxidermists. But quite seriously, you may consider writing an article. It would be well recieved and greatly appreciated.
Kindest regards,
Mary
While you Knuckle Heads fluff your feathers, no one has answered his questions, Chris, I'm new at this taxidermy thing and have not entered any nationals, or state comps, but my customers have been very pleased. I have received much needed help from this site and the very people on this post going around with each other, its the nature of the beast I guess. I have done two bear already(what in the h*** was I thinking to try it myself) they turned out just fine! My customers have been repeat for the bear, that is what counts! You are right on track with the degreaser. Thin skin, degrease, wash, degrease, tan. That is it! Just let the degreaser work. Don't let these guys scare you off the bear. They are really that easy, and are very nice when they go to the customers(you know, the ones that matter) Good luck Chris!
that does enough reasearch on this very site and has ALL the nessessary equipment, large tumbler, fleshers and some common sense can achieve quality tanning results (with practice) on any animal including bear. thats a fact, mary may not understand the tanning process, but you george, you know better! your just set in your ways! enough of this bs , i have better things i should be doing with my time.
..crack me up, what are you , one of the 3 stooges lol! I think if you read back over all the posts, the original question had been answered 3 times by different "knuckleheads".lol
And Lee, I don't need to understand the tanning process, I'm not running a tannery ! All I need to understand in my specialized area of work is that I need a quality product to start with to be able to produce a quality finished product. Using your terminology...that's not rocket science!
And you are absolutely right, enough time has been wasted on deaf ears.
Kindest regards,
Mary
I'd hate like hell to see bragging if what you were doing WASN'T. In case you didn't notice, this is the BEGINNERS CATEGORY and most BEGINNERS don't really want to spend tens of thousands of dollars on equipment to do work better suited for professionals anyway. I gave you credit for being an exception to the rule, but I see you're a bigger exception than I gave you credit for. I'm a 2nd rate taxidermist and I've given seminars at the NTA and World Shows. So what's your point. By the way, your spelling needs some help as well.
And CPatee, if you're beginning, you'd better start reading. Encouraging Chris to use a soap on degreasing a hide during the tanning process is a good way to end up with bear leather. It's all spelled out in this post above if you'll just READ.
i can agree that my mother was right - dont argue with an idiot(s) cause after it gets going no one knows which is which