Submitted by Allen on 6/25/99. ( )
I am a beginner and have heard and seen several things about freeze drying but I am unclear of the process and its benefits. Could one of you pros give me a better idea or explanation of the process and its benefits. Thanks!!!
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This response submitted by George Roof on 6/25/99. ( georoof@aol.com )
Allen,
For taxidermy discussion, and animal is eviserated and filled with polyfill or something similar. Wires are sometimes run through the animal to aid in posing it. Eyes are removed and artificail eyes are installed.
The mount is then placed in a freezer and frozen solid over a period of days. When completely frozen, it is removed and put in a vacuum chamber. As the ice melts, the moisture is immediately removed. This allows the cell structure to remain intact (hollow) as the moisture is removed. The process is delicate, and the finished product may be smaller than the one you put in.
In our business, freeze drying has recently become more accepted for small specimen that made the work impossible or unique animals that no manniken was available and for antlers in velvet. On larger animals, however, most of us believe that "moving the skin" is the only way to perform taxidermy.
This response submitted by John C on 6/25/99. ( )
Ok Geroge has the correct idea, BUT, the Ice does not melt. It evaporates, the process is called sublimination. Ice turns to vapor without crossing back to the liqiud state. The chamber suckd the vapor out through the little hole you make in the mount. When the vapor hits a even colder surface it refreezes to that surface.
Hope this helps.
Recently many people have been mislead. That raising the temp in the chamber will cut down on chamber time. Specimens are spoiling this way. The colder the better down to about -10 degrees far. Comprendia.
This response submitted by Kastaway Kulis on 6/25/99. ( jkulis@kastaway.com )
John did a great job of explaining. We were the first company
to use freeze drying, building our first 4 machines in 1969.
Therefore I have 30 years of experience. We have a lot of
machines running doing a lot of different mounts. For most
items, +4 F will be the fasest for drying. John was partially
wrong on raising the temp. to speed it up. We heat our
shelves up during drying to speed up the process. We can do
a 5# bass, without ay shrinkage in 2 to 3 weeks. The trick
is to control the temp during drying. We put a probe into
the specimen before freezing. After puting a specimen into
the chamber that is +31 F, taking it into a low vacuum, the
temp. inside will drop to -31 F. The trick is the raise the
temp of the specimen but not above freezing. It is involved,
but the only way to speed up the process. Have a great day. Joe
This response submitted by Bill on 6/25/99. ( Yoxtax@aol.com )
...but what is your opinion on how to protect the mount from bugs, both dermestids and the cloth moth? Also, Wards scientific is near here, they have some OLD machines, very simple but effective. Im curious to hear your reply.
This response submitted by JAKE on 6/26/99. ( )
GEORGE,
YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT OWN A FREEZEDRIER. IN THE FUTURE
PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT ON SOMETHING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.
THANKS.
This response submitted by Donho on 6/26/99. ( bcclub170@aol.com )
Allen,
Freeze -drying is a great method of preserving a specimen.You have been told of the process and how it works. You will not have to skin the specimen or make or buy a manikin,you will be able to get very creative in posing though.In my opinion,It is faster ,easier to get a final product that if done properly will look very lifelike.As for moth and dermestes there are some products that the taxidermy stores sell that will help with this problem although, there is no permenent bug proofing on the market as of this date and time for ANY taxidermy method that is legal to purchase. All mounts should be carefully gone over for insect damage, and sprayed with something like mount shield or a similar product once a month or so,Allen it's a great tool use it to your advantage.
Good Luck Donho
This response submitted by George Roof on 6/26/99. ( georoof@aol.com )
Dear Jake and to all your gutless friends who refuse to supply your address:
NO, I do not own a freeze drier (It's two words. I took English too and ice "do" melt) nor do I intend on it. I can't play a piano either, but that doesn't mean I don't know when the pianist hits the wrong note. When I need something freeze dried, I contract it out, which is seldom. Nothing in my answer was wrong in the effort to answer the individuals question in the simplest terms. ( I see you didn't even bother to offer your opinion.) I mix Bondo and have no idea how thixotropic formulas work, but I know they do. I dare say, you use a lot of things you have no idea about and it's commendable that you don't comment. This would have been another perfect time to practice that trick. And you're welcome.
This response submitted by Patrick Rummans on 6/26/99. ( birdspec@lewistown.net )
Just had to laugh at Jake - I don't know what got his panties in a wad but apparently George is a source of irritation. I don't know why - I thought George answered the question to the best of his knowledge and at least made the attempt to help out . . .
None of us have all the answers but I certainly do admire those of you who contribute regularly in an effort to help out. I just as strongly object to those of you who choose to use this forum as a means to ridicule, slander or otherwise abuse others. There's no need for it and you only make yourself look like a fool.
By the way George, your response to Jake was an example of what a gentleman I'm assuming you are.
Patrick Rummans
This response submitted by Bill on 6/26/99. ( yoxtax@aol.com )
...and I was happy with Georges brief but gracious answer. I, too CAN go into the mechanics of the freeze dry process, but that is not what the original question concerned. George took the time to answer the question, did you, Jake? An immature turkey, you earned that name with that post. Hows that Patrick? Lmao, too.
This response submitted by Patrick Rummans on 6/27/99. ( birdspec@lewistown.net )
Yeah, that's pretty good Bill! I've noticed that you have the keen ability to extrapolate obscure information from common situations and produce humor - do you give lessons??
Jake, hope you're taking this with a grain of salt - I'm not picking on you. God knows that I've let my alligator mouth overload my hummingbird ass more than once, so I'm not pointing fingers - just doing for you what others have done for me - suggesting that maybe you think before you type . . .it's really easy to be mean and sarcastic, but it takes a little doing to be kind, open-minded or generous. I'll bet you're a great guy to be friends with - don't give people the wrong impression on the forums by making people think otherwise.
This response submitted by Bill on 6/27/99. ( yoztax@aol.com )
Patricks right, Im a great guy to be friends with, too! Ha ha, seriously, I pop on here once in a while to just be a buffer so we dont take these things too seriously. Sometimes we say things and wish we could unsay them, so when we post things here, it stays...so we might want to read and reread a post and decide whether we really need to comment in that fashion. I find that if you sign your real name and email address, you usually post messages that are thought out first...yeah guys, I know some exceptions, too! See ya around Jake, on better terms Im sure. Oh, and Patrick, whats a hummingbird ass?
This response submitted by Patrick Rummans on 6/27/99. ( birdspec@lewistown.net )
Bill, a hummingbird ass is a miniscule device which functions as an exit ramp for processed nectar molecules. Always happy to help you out!
Patrick
This response submitted by Allen on 6/28/99. ( )
Thanks for all of the great answers. I appreciate the time spent to explain the process it has helped me better understand the process and its advantages.
Allen
This response submitted by Jake on 6/28/99. ( )
Wow! I didn't think my email would cause such a stir.
Hi George, no I will not leave my email... I really don't want
guys like you knowing my email address. But thanks for
the English lesson. Now, if only you knew something about
freeze drying...
This response submitted by Richard Cranium on 6/28/99. ( )
Your post caused a stir because you're a jerk! Most people don't like jerks so they wrote in to let you know - that you're a jerk. Did I mention you're a jerk? You might even be a dick head or a putz - let me know so I can be more accurate next time!
This response submitted by Bill on 6/28/99. ( you know who )
Lets try to limit the replies to comments that can help the others, or at least answers to thier questions. Keep the name calling to yourself, just like we tell the children...take the hint, please.This wasnt meant to be a showcase for your stupidity...
This response submitted by Jake on 6/29/99. ( )
Mr. Skull,
We actually know each other and I posted the original message just
to rattle your chain!
I was going to tell you who I am but not now cause you'll
probably punch me in the face next time you see me!
Anyway, you've been a pantload.
Jake
This response submitted by George Roof on 6/29/99. ( georoof@aol.com )
Jake???????
I don't even know why I'm bothering to deny having written anything other than what I put my name on, but I assure you, Richard Cranium AIN'T me. I didn't do it. And I'm too old and too ugly to get into fights, so you don't have to worry about it from me. But whoever Richard is, he may want a shot or two at you. Good Luck.
This response submitted by Marc on 6/29/99. ( Fish2Paint@aol.com )
Will...ha ha ha.....you guys....snicker snort snicker...please stop....he he he he ...your killing...lol lol lol.....me here...rofloa roflao roflao....
This response submitted by David on 7/22/99. ( memphodave@aol.com )
Can anyone enlighten me on the best but most economical freeze dry machine on the market. Also, how is pricing decided on freeze dry items.
Thanks,
David
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