I was wondering if you guys paint your pheasant feet. I think I'm just gonna spray mine with fish gloss.
Thanks
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Pheasants due have subtle colors that most definately will fade... Not only that, the legs will turn deep black and even chalky in places if they aren't painted.
It only takes a few minutes, and it will make a world of difference in a few months time.
That's just my opinion.
Jon
Sorry, Jon. Commercial work only, however and I see no reason to either.
Your pheasant feet will eventually turn black...Don't need to paint them? It depends if you want them to look realistic! Check your reference photo's...Everything from grey, dark brown, ivory white to even a Touch of red and they look really sweet when you give them a wash with stain to fill in the cracks...PAINT THEM...No short cuts!
What the heck are you doing to your pheasant feet to cause that? Routine study skins of birds dozens of years old don't have the feet turn black. Sheesh. Chalky? What preservative are you using that would deposit the vaporized material on the outside of the feet? Or what conditions would cause your feet to turn color?
While a little tinting might help, I would never cover the entire feet of a pheasant with paint as you might with a duck foot. It just looks entirely too painted. The natural color of the transparent chitinous scale material cannot really be duplicated. Any painted foot I have seen in competition looks flat and painted.
While I haven't tried it, my bet for the best looking foot would be to inject bright color underneath the scales but still leave them transparent with only a very thin surface wash.
the difference of opinion here... I really wouldn't have expected that.
Maybe chalky wasn't the right word Taxidermologist, but they appear to be very dry.. almost as if you could just scratch off the scales.. and yes it has been my experience that the legs/feet do darken up considerably.
I do agree, a solid coat of paint isn't necessary.. I put a light wash of flesh , then after that is dry a slightly heavier wash of a pale grey color.. With the dark color of the dried leg showing throgh, I find it to be very natural looking.
What about Turkey legs.. to me they seem to turn a dark, but bright red when they dry out. Not the same natural fleshy pale red of the living bird.. What's your opinion?
Jon
I don't paint my Commercial pheasant feet either but I do remove the tendons that will help in the rotting and discoloring of the legs.
I you must pain use a wash; it looks more natural than a paint.
If my feet look like my post maybe i should look a little closer.
You done good and said it right. My legs have never turned black either. Show me a pheasant leg that's been painted, and I'll have picked it out before you showed me. Same goes with turkeys. Now the top end guys, that statement won't apply, but 75% of us do a crappy job on painting legs on upland birds.
I guess that's why us judges are so "hard" on upland birds in shows.
Discoloration of the feet WILL happen (in time) and will depend solely on what was injected into them. Formaldehyde and glycerin turns my pheasant feet a lighter, washed out color. Elmer's and water (for the freeze dryer) turns them almost white. The injectable resins (depending on type) usually turn them a darker color. Inject nothing and they turn a really dark brown, almost black.
As with anything, it is harder to lighten something with paint than it is to darken it which might explain why you are having so much trouble getting feet painted without looking painted. And "fish gloss" on upland bird feet is just plain dumb!
If you're not going to "bother" injecting pheasant feet for your valued customer why bother doing anything with the wattles, the beak, the tail--what the heck, why bother with all that fleshing and washing stuff. Right?
I'm suprised at some of the responses here. Especially from a select few who pride themselves on "do it right or not at all" attitudes. Jim Kimball is probably giggling like a school girl reading all this.
Some of us actually do this for a living and judging from work I see in the mid-Atlantic region, my statement still holds true. Nothing looks dumber than a badly painted pair of upland game bird legs. Even the dark color looks better than the gobs of paint I see splattered on some of the mounts I've looked at. Jim Kimball fits within the top 2% of bird taxidermists and well within that 25% fudge factor I used. As usual, your statement is cavalier toward anyone who doesn't do it just like you do. Jim's tentatively schedule to do a seminar at Nationals this summer and it's certainly one I'm going to sneak away and watch. Hopefully he'll be able to share his methods of coloring the legs without daubing them with paint.
"As usual, your statement is cavalier toward anyone who doesn't do it just like you do."---George, where in my post did I say "how I did it"? If that is ever a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is. Since you made it personal (once again) let me paraphrase you in a post to las a few weeks ago:
'I will fight for your right to express your own opinion but I will be damned if I will let you come on here and give bad advice to people'. I know that is not EXACTLY how you phrased it but I too, "do this for a living" and am too busy to check the archives to get your exact words just to make you look like more of an ass than you've already done yourself. For the record George, YOU are the reason I don't post "how I do it". If anyone wants advice on "how I do it" they are free to call or email me (not that 'how I do it' matters anyway).
Have a good weekend!
Paul Czarnecki
www.tristatetaxidermy.com
If you're not going to do it right, then why do it at all! Oppions vary, but there should be no short cuts in good bird taxidermy and isn't that what we are all striving for! As for the taxidermologist, my feet don't turn black, because I do inject them and shade them as follows...Ivory White...Neutral Grey...Dark Brown...Just a touch of dark red and wash with special walnut stain...And no, my feet don't look painted...If you lightly shade all of these colors, you will have "Master" results on yes, even commercial mounts! But then again, this is what works for me and there are many ways to skin a cat and paint upland game feet!
I never have used any form of injectable resin in a bird foot, and that must be what is causing the pheasant feet of those above to turn black. In my opinion, if you add a resin you end up trapping bacteria within the foot by essentially sealing off access to drying. Without ability to dry properly, the feet will actually begin to decompose, and even stink badly, especially if there is trapped blood. Many posts in the archives mention decomposing smell in feet of larger birds that were injected with resins. Most organic material will turn black upon decomposition, at least initially - perhaps the release of the element carbon to darken the material - kinda like brown wood turning black to charcoal in a fire, or to dark compost when placed in a composter. Even grass comes out black or dark brown. Perhaps a pheasant foot won't give out a lot of smell though, but bacterial action may still be happening. In extremely dry climates the foot may dry out quickly, and lowered moisture will not support a high bacterial action, thus the feet may not become black. This may explain for example Wilson's pheasant feet not turning black, but then again I don't know if he injects with a poisen.
If a taxidermist injects formalin (and possibly the other aldehyde currently on the market) then bacterial action is essentially curtailed and the foot can dry out without turning black/dark brown. The paraformaldehyde residue after the gaseous dissolved formaldehyde leaves the foot will still prevent bacterial action while at the same time imparting a very good insecticidal action on these tasty morsels for wild dermestids.
I prefer to inject feet for taxidermy mounts with formalin and elmers' type glue, not the old standby of glycerine/formalin. Air drying won't turn the feet the "whitish" color that Paul seems to get in a freeze drier, and tinting seems to be be better than the flat paint that I always seem to see even in the masters' level pheasants. Drying of the feet thoroughly will release moisture that is present within the foot, and the scales will appear lighter as a group. This same thing happens with most snake mounts where the snake is mounted anywhere from two weeks after a recent shedding up to when it sheds for itself. A recently shed snake that is mounted will not produce the dried outside layer that this sites' guru always says has to be removed. Tanning the skin, instead of dry preserve, will often prevent this outside layer looking dry and needing to be removed.
Long term storage of feet in a freezer always seems to turn the feet a lighter color, even without injecting elmers glue, so I doubt the elmers in the reason the feet turn white in a freeze drier. Some pigments I think vaporize in a freezer, or are carried off with highly volatile fats, but this is pure speculation.
I still don't like a painted Pheasant foot, but you do have to paint a turkey and most other birds. I am only discussing a pheasant in this post, as that is the question that started it out. Some underlayment of color may be useful as I suggested above. After reflection though, another possible way to go would be the perhaps paint the legs with a thinned down beeswax or other wax which would add a slight color is added but not remove the depth of the surface layer.
I do notice that this forum seems to bring out the worst in people, as there is constant bickering about politics, religion, and in many cases, the way a particular person does some phase of taxidermy. I see the value of bouncing ideas off of the general audience here, and contributing what insight I may have, be it esoteric or valuable, but I mean no malice towards anyone here. Everything I place is my opinion only. I would however, love to hear other people views of how they do pheasant feet and how many melanistic feet show up in peoples mounts over time. Nancy, Clewis, Old Fart, Tony F, Mr. Kimball, or any other valued specialists want to place your two cents here?
Let me show you."That explains it!" Or how about "I guess that's why US judges are so "hard" on upland birds in shows." "If you're not going to do it right, why do it at all." This forum is comprised of mostly people trying to learn and perfect the basic skills of taxidermy. I could give a crap what a judge in a show thinks of my commercial work and it's not because I don't try to make every piece as good as I can. "DP" sounded like an ordinary guy doing just that, but then the "me better than you's" showed up and instead of just telling him to forego the gloss, two of us admitted that we just left them alone. "Wash coats" and "blending" are great definitive words, but actually pulling them off is not the given that some of you gifted people assume it to be. Some of you actually possess magic in your hands and you don't comprehend that those of us who don't have to "make do". Neither you nor Jim Kimball will ever be threatened by the likes of me,DP, and I guess wilson too. I actually tan deer hides but I don't talk down to people who use dry preservative. Try walking in our shoes for awhile instead of looking down on us. You might find we have a great deal to offer and if it weren't for us down here, there'd me no positions available for you up there.
Give me a bit to catch my breath..... I've been mounting Sage Grouse all week and I'm not really in the right mind frame to give a response to this one...
But THANKS Paul !
if we are talking birds, then i think paul has you beat. if you had known that was mister Czarnecki would you have jumped all over what he said to begin with? if someone named "jim" had posted that you would have said the same thing, but if the last name "kimball" would have come after "jim"...... i bet you would have agreed with him.
You don't know me very well, then, do you? Pay up.
George you say in your post that most of the taxidermists on here are new or trying to learn the basis of taxidermy. What a load of crap coming from you. I believe between you and one or two others, you have offended or criticized just about everyone on here. Here is my two cents.... I have learned over the years by different methods, one being competitions....ones that were judged by Paul and a variety of others. Even competed against Jim Kimball and got stomped! In my opinion the best bird judge I have had yet was Paul. He took the time to sit down with me and explain things, gave me his number to ask questions if I ran into problems and was more than helpful by sharing his valueable time. That is how we want to learn. We do not want to learn by someone poking at us and telling us "orange button" on every post. I am not one to critique others work and poke fun but I have seen some of your birds and if you did all that you say you do, you would be in the top 2% also but your not. I guess the old saying don't open your mouth unless you know what your talking about comes into play. I would like for you to find me two posts that you have replied too that say something positive without something negative to follow. Believe me, I think you will spend some time on that......Until then, have a nice day.
When I saw the original title of this post I just cringed and said to myself, "Don't even go there, it's going to get bloody."
(So, why on earth do I never listen to my own advice? ... sigh ...)
For the record, I almost always paint commercial pheasant feet .... *sort of*, because I don't like the way they look when they dry up and turn dark. I don't make a big deal out of it, however. I just mist them very lightly with a thin coat of diver's grey. I only want it to lighten them up some, not to completely obscure the scale pattern. It takes, literally, a few seconds to do it. If I encounter one of those odd ones that dries with nice pale feet I usually just seal it and leave well enough alone. It's the blotchy ones that annoy me the most. I deal with them case by case, as needed, after first having a few words with them.
My live pheasants had pale grey legs with a very pretty waxy, pearlescent quality to them. I have never seen a mounted pheasant with that look captured perfectly, but I have seen some that came awfully close. It is NOT easy to do and should certainly be commended.
Is it ok to use artificial feet and legs on birds for competitions? I always use them on commercial mounts and I cast my own from the specimens if they are good specimens.I dont have to worry with messy injectibles, insects, shrinkage etc, I have found feet for geese, ducks and pheasant but so far nobody has them available for quail or dove because they are so delicate and difficult to cast I guess.If they had them I would buy them.
Particularly if you have cast them yourself, it is perfectly acceptable. I have cast the feet of a day-old gosling with good results, so I don't see why quail or doves should be too much trouble. 'Just not enough demand to make commercial ones I guess.