Hello all
question about migratory birds, do you know if I should be logging our own migratory birds that are already mounted and on display in the log book? I have a crow in the showroom now (yes, it is legal to hunt them in our area) and was wondering if I should log that in the book, also to those of you that deal with penraised birds, do you log those too? I have a couple of those there now too and I just have the transfer slips there in case anyone comes asking..?
I know someone will say call US Fish & Wildlife- migratory bird office and I will, I think I'll call our local guy too but that last time I called the Hadley office the man I spoke with was really uninformed, I called with a question about selling a captive bred duck, he insisted I was not allowed to do this, I told him it was captive bred, was toe clipped, I had the transfer slip and the federal permit to let me do this and he still insisted this was illegal, I respectfully told him "Sir, if you read line..whatever it is..on the permit, it says I'm allowed to with this permit.. to sell CAPTIVE BRED birds" He put me on hold for 5 minutes then came back on the line and said "oh, your right, but the local wardens don't like that, they "frown on that" was is wording..anyway, he blew that one and now I'm a little leary about the advice I get there..
Has anyone had problems with their local guys regarding pen raised birds..?
Ok, sorry for so many questions, just wondering how all of you do this, thanks for any info
TJ
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Once the birds are mounted and on display you don't need to log them. That is if they are yours. A crow dosn't need it anyway. As for pen raised birds I don't know, but I suspect not.
EVERYTHING IN YOUR FREEZER and/or SHOP NEEDS TO BE LOGGED...
not trying to be an [expletive deleted].. just being honest. Captive Raised or not, log it.. but log it as such.. keep a copy of the transfer slip with the bird... Regardless if it is migratory (ducks) or Non-migratory (pheasants) they still have to be logged as cold storage. As a taxidermist, you are required under your federal permit to do this... ALSO keep in mind, that just becuase YOU are a taxidermist.. with a permist... DOES NOT exclude you from PERSONAL POSSESSION limits...
All birds in your shop, whether personal or not... need to be marked..EVEN AFTER THEY ARE MOUNTED...... It's easier to show and provide solid proof of the birds ownership at a simple glance, vs being asked and having to search for the record... I know what the laws state, once it's mounted, things do not apply.... But its up to the gw to decide if you are telling the truth or not about that bird being yours and not a customers... and they will be the final judge. All it amounts to is a small piece of paper taped to the bottom of the mount. Like I said, I know what the laws say, and I know it sounds redundant.. but i promise you it will save youself lots of sweat and heartache if ever you do have a visit from the locals of the feds...
As stated earlier, everything that goes into your freezer.. must be logged, by law.. as long as that documentation stays with the skin, and then the mount..(considering it's legal to begin with) there is absolutely no reason that anything in your shop should ever be question whether it's frozon, skinned, mounted, migratory, or non-migratory... it's all about CYA.....and CYA Good!
Law Enforement is funny.. If they don't find anything to scutinize, the will move on.. however, if they find a single discrepancy.. they start digging, and they will dig until they find something else.
Skeet... I'm sorry, as I would normally never dispute another persons post in general, but as a licensed taxidermist (if you are) I can not understand why you would ever offer the advice you just did. I mean, it only took one visit from the feds to set me in my new found ways. I have to admit, when they left my shop the first time their little white gloves were a little dingy.. nothing illegal mind you, but when they questioned, I was unable to provide proof of my answer...
Secondly... Why wouldn't a crow need any documentation. It is migratory and protected under the Migratory bird treat act of 1972. They need the same documentation that a duck would need.. I don't know where you got your information but it is most definately wrong.
I hope I answered your question TJ.
Jon
Jon is right on, crows are federaly regulated and need to be logged, he is also correct in his statement that whatever is in your posession for taxidermy purposes be logged, that includes your own specimans.
This is one of those questions that has great information by hitting the "search button" There are 225 responses using "migratory birds" and there are 19 responses using "tagging birds". I suspect that with a little more imagination on the search titles you could find much more. As with any of the responses on the Forum, opinion is just opinion, but in a nut shell, if you personally shoot a bird and place the bird into your shop, it has to be tagged and recorded as if you were the customer - name, date of kill, license number signature and so forth. If you shoot a bird and DO NOT place it in your shop (shop freezers) it is counted against your possession limit but is not subject to inspection. Being a taxidermist does not preclude you from enjoying the rights every other citizen enjoys. There are advantages to entering a bird in your shop and entering it in your records - the main one is that the custody of the bird changes from you personally to your business, just as it would for any other bird you received - in other words, you become your own customer. At that point, that bird does not count against your daily or possession limit. IF you place your own birds on display in your shop, tagging is a wise thing to do. Good luck
If you think it's a good idea to overdocument your personal possession's, then go ahead and document. Knock yourself out, but..... Federal regulations *DO NOT* require you to log in or tag your own bird!
I do know of a few STATES that require you to tag everything in your shop but that's an entirely different subject.
The Feds have no authority to regulate your own personal migratory birds unless you are raising them, you leave them with someone else or they are being transported in a closed container.
Show me the law!
Bill K.
you do not...
However... if you're going to keep them in your shop freezer which is subject to inspection as well as the whole facility that you are licensed to do business out of, then I'd rather have it tagged than have to explain why it isn't..
it then boils down to your word against his.....(the warden)
Like I said.. it's about CYA..
Why pose room for question when a few seconds of work can resolve all questions.?
Jon
Federal regulations do not require you to log your own birds in but if you don't you could be in violation of posession limits. Say you have 7 wood ducks in your freezer whole, even if they are in your house you are over your posession limit of wood ducks. But say you log them in to your records in your shop, you have turned the birds over to a preservation facility therefore realesing you of posession. There are all kinds of laws that partain to federal migratory birds and most of them are listed in the paper work you got when your recieved you federl migratory bird permit, if you didn't recieve a copy call the USFWS and request a copy. And yes crows do migrate and are covered under federal law, therefore they must be loged in. Here in Ga. the DNR requires that we log everything in our shop into a permanent record even our own mounts. If you have any questions or cooncerns I would contact your state agency and the USFWS.
Like Bill said...If it is your own bird, you do not need to log or tag it for that matter...This is according to a US Fish & Wildlife agent in my home state! Of course your personal possession limit comes into play! Infact, he went as far to say, they prefer if you do not tag your own birds to avoid any confusion! Also, any mounted bird does not need to be tagged if it's your own bird...Once again this is according to the feds and a local warden!
scott you would still be in posession if you tag your own birds. you cant have more than your own posession limit even if they are taged, unless you took them to another taxidermist to do..or gift them to your folks,sister,brother, etc. AND they dont even need a hunting lic.you can gift them to anybody and they can posess a posession limit.in the USA.... the fed that comes here says anything NOT taged in my frezer will be counted on MY posession limit...and my own personal finished mounts dont have tags on them and wont ever have..key word dnr? is state. usfw federal. (USA)
Possesion limits don't apply to fully processed specimens.
Game laws treat migratory birds and big game similarly in this case, and you KNOW it is legal to have all of your personal deer mounted and on display. You just wouldn't want them to all be hanging in the meat locker at the same time.
A finished mounted bird is not part of your possesion limit. A frozen bird or bird skin IS part of it.
I have heard conflicting views concerning dried skins, but most of them say that dried skins are also considered to be fully processed since they are stable with no further treatment.
Department of Natural Resources in Ga. I am not trying to argue with ya'll, I'm just saying how it is here. We have to log everything in our shop in to a permanent log including our own personall mounts, wether they are completed or not. As far as logging your own birds in your federal migratory bird records I might be wrong but my shop is a bird preservation facility and according to the law if turned over to a bird preservation facility it is out of my posession. I will check back with the paper work I recieved with my bird permit.
if i took a bird to you it wouldent be part of my possesion after i left it with you but, it dont work like that with your own birds,you can only have your own possesion limit. and your state must want you to tag not the feds. and the regs say it is no longer counted as poss. AFTER the taxidermy proses has started. you will get a different answer from each fed. the last one i talked to DID NOT COUNT SKINS as he said if it was skinned out the taxidermy proses has started. he also said that was HIS opinion....
Thanks to all that posted..