Answer to the tumbler question.

Submitted by Bjorn Ivar Hansen on 10/31/05 at 1:51 PM. ( ) 80.202.30.94

I work at the museum of sience in Trondheim Norway, and there we allways use a tumbler with small bits of sheepskin in to dry the birdskins.
First we wash them in soapy water, then we let them soak in Eulan SPA mixed with white vinigar for about 20 minutes, then we squeese the birdskin gently. And then let the skin soak in Etanol Alcohol for about 5 min. Squeese out the alcohol and blow it with compressed air and tumble dry it in a tumbler with the sheepskin bits in it for about 20 minutes for a mallard sized skin.

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small bits of sheepskin ?

This response submitted by Mike on 10/31/05 at 3:47 PM. ( ) 12.106.25.202

Interesting.


Bjorn, then I guess I need to ask, "What was the question."

This response submitted by George on 10/31/05 at 6:14 PM. ( georoof@aol.com ) 152.163.100.132

I'm a little skeptical of the methods you describe as being viable for commercial work, much less museum work.

Eulan SPA is a permethrine based product and to dilute it with white vinegar seems to be a bit strange. I suppose the intent is to use the acid as a carrier to imbed the permethrin in the cell structure, but that seems far fetched. Borax as a topical treatment would serve the same purpose without worrying about pH and absorption.

After that, you soak the skin in ethanol? What's that all about. The ethanol would surely displace any water, but it would do the same for the vinegar or Eulan SPA and wash it from the skin it would seem.

The sheep skin in the tumbler doesn't surprise me as Eulan SPA is usually used as an insect inhibitor in wool, but I can't imagine any useful purpose it would serve as a tumbling mix. Wool, by and large doesn't absorb water that readily compared to hardwood sawdust or corn cob flour anyway, and when you're done, you have to dry the wool (maybe you toss it). It is, however, interesting to see how many different ways there truly are to "skin a cat".


Bjorn

This response submitted by John M on 10/31/05 at 9:38 PM. ( ) 24.196.153.21

I was in your museum in the late 80's and early 90's ( Ithink, i was drunk most of the time there). We used to bring stuff for NATO up to the Vernes Flystasjon. Hopefully someday I'll get back to Norway and esp. Trondheim, a very beautiful city. Tak, John


John M!

This response submitted by Bjorn Ivar Hansen on 11/1/05 at 3:02 AM. ( bjorn.i.hansen@portalen.no ) 129.241.46.231

Hello.
It`s a beautiful city, but a very cold place. Do you work with Taxidermy?!
If you do, maybe we can try to work together aq give eachother hints and stuff?! Tusen Takk, Bjørn Ivar


And to George, the methods we use here has been used for a VERY long timen here at the museum and there have never been any infectation of any kind to the birds or mammals here in the museum!
So I think that we are going to use the same method for a long time still!


Good point, Bjorn

This response submitted by George on 11/1/05 at 7:58 AM. ( ) 64.12.116.132

But did you know that America has native plant life that repells elephants. We've never had a native elephant in this state since pre-historic times. It's worked for a long time and and we suppose we'll be using it for a long time still.

Silly analogy, I know, and I'd be the last person to say that a method didn't work, but our museums have the same success as well. The Charleston (SC) is older than the Smithsonian and they have some ancient birds (though I strongly suspect that arsenic might be their protection) on display there. I'd really like to know which of our two choices IS actually the better. I'm certainly not averse to changing horses midstream. Anyone used both?


Eulan is a variant of Edolan

This response submitted by The Taxidermologist on 11/1/05 at 8:59 AM. ( ) 147.72.68.109

George, your internet survey implied that the fixed "insecticide" was no better than permethrine, and it may be "based on it". But Edolan and Eulan are synthetic versions of that type of chemical, both which have been outlawed in the US. If you remember when Edolan was in common use in the US, there was a bath in acidic solution of vinegar -which is exactly as Bjorn points out. See this cite on wollen preservation
www.canesis.com/Documents/Yarn_Chemical_Treatments.pdf
http://www.buildinggreen.com/auth/article.cfm?fileName=050604b.xml

I have tested edolan treated material in my bug colony years ago, and it worked well.


Thanks Stephen

This response submitted by George on 11/1/05 at 12:55 PM. ( ) 64.12.116.132

I strongly suspected the names were too close not to be related, but neither my memory nor my dedication took me far enough to check that out. And I'm guilty of ASSUMING that outlawed substances here can't be had other places as well. I've been out of the military too long I suppose.


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