I am new to taxidermy and was worried about the measurment of my Mallard. The feathers are so thick do I use the numbers I get or should I subrtact some to get the actual size of the body.
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Just order a MALLARD body. Measuring has gone the way of Morse code and LORAN. If your bird is a large mallard, order a large mallard form. If it's an average sized one, just order an average sized one. Order an artificial mallard head. It will fit.
Just a little tip I have to offer. Do like george said. When you get the body, if its a little big, just sand it down. I put the surfoam to all my bird bodies before I mount them up. Shape the foam body so its roughly the same size and shape as the bird you have skinned. A good rule of thumb for bird bodies, a little smaller is better. You can always fill in with cotton. Good luck.
Clark, I would skin the bird out and get a length of the body after you get it out. Measure from the end of the shoulder to the end of the pogostyle (tailbone). Order a body a little smaller than you need but not much. By the time you get the bird degreased and washed and tumbled it will accept a huge body, hence,check your length after skinning. Be careful about your head as some do offer two sizes in a mallard head. My best , Jim
Measuring has gone the way of Morse Code? Serious? I think it's pretty darn important! Proper reference is paramount. I would measure and save your carcus for reference. So many of the bodies offered in catalogs are way too big. Good Luck!
And please don't tell me that you ever find one EXACTLY the measurement you take. I'm too old to listen to such trash. If you were Dave Luke or some of the competition guys who wrap the bodies, then I'll buy off on that, but certainly not here. Did you read the first sentence that Clark wrote? And I only know of ONE supplier who offers a "Daffy Duck" head for the huge barnyard mallards. This is a beginner and needs to concentrate much more on cleaning, defatting, wiring, and posing birds than taking measurements that mean nothing to him. I probably get 100 ducks each year and the only thing I ever concern myself with if the geese which often use 3 different sizes. Everything else gets the generic body of the species.
So because I'm not Dave Luke I have nothing to offer a beginner? Hey we don't see eye to eye on this thread. Which is fine, opinons vary.
I just know when I first started in bird taxidermy that I ran into a lot of trouble ordering generic bodies. Too big, too small? It wasn't until I started to pay attention to my measurements & reference that it started to fall into place. If you take the measurements, order from a catalog that has the measurements in print...At the very least you can get in the ball park. Tough to pose a bird properly if the body is the size football?
It's funny...I just got back from a competition. No, I'm not Dave Luke(Wish my work was like his) but I'm striving to be!
You seriously can't believe all mallards, or even 90% can be mounted accurately on the exact form with the exact bill copy and be a quality mount. Ducks to you might appear the same size, but I assure you they are not. Why don't supply companies sell one size of a deer form? Dave Luke, and any "bird brain" type taxidermist as you have called us in the archives, either fabricate our own bodies or compare the carcass to the purchased body. In my mind, it is very rare to find an accurate fit on any commercial body, and thus they must be modified.
Clark is obviously new to Taxidermy in trying to measure the carcass through the feathers, but Rick A. is quite aware of the need to compare a body to the proposed manikan and adjust accordingly.
Everyone on here wants to get their tit in a wringer over something. No one ever said you had to be a Dave Luke to wrap bird bodies, but ANYONE with HALF A BRAIN knows that for a beginner, you need to start out with the basics first. Many of us started with Northwest School of Taxidermy and if you ever followed those directions, you'd have had to be serious about taxidermy. Otherwise, you quit in frustration. As I stated, you tell me a species that you can order by generic name that fits the description you're trying to prove your point by. Though most suppliers still offer measurements for their bird bodies, they seldom offer varying sizes except in geese and mallards. No one is going to consciously put a large mallard body form in a greenwing teal. And that's NOT going to happen simply because we tend to order by species. Sure, it may need some altering to fit, but at least we're in the ballpark. And I'll be the first to tell you, if I could wrap a body like Dave Luke or some of these other guys, I wouldn't be ordering generic either. Wrapping a body takes as much talent as mounting a bird.
You're absolutely right. No two mallards are ever the same size. AND? Do you think that the regular offering of only 3 separate sizes will cover all those nuances? NAH! Ain't happening either. Now tell me about the greenwing teal. How many choices do you get? You can't honestly tell me that all greenwing teal are the same sizes. Or can you? A perfect example of "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". I'm not going to use a wood duck body inside a canvasback. TAXIDERMY AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE. The majority of taxidermist, by a humongous margin are COMMERCIAL TAXIDERMISTS and commercial taxidermists do just what I do: They find the name of the bird, they order the body the catalog advises and they mount the bird. It's going in someone's home! Not some museum or some taxidermy competition.
A beginner made the mistake of posing his question in the bird category instead of the beginners. Had he done that, none of you "bird brains" would have insisted on taking him to the PhD level right out of the chute. You'd have given him exactly the same advice and told him that is first priority should be anatomy, posing, feather placement, etc. I don't think any of you read questions anymore to the point you can empathize with the questioner. As I said, the majority of taxidermists are commercial guys who don't ever see the need for modifying the bird body. They understand the skin will shrink, but their biggest mistake, invariably is to cut the neck lenght too short or too long. The perfect duck body with a pencil neck will still look like crap. Clark is a BEGINNER and he needs to concentrate on basics FIRST and FOREMOST.
Not trying to be a smart a** here but just wondering if you have a website? You've got a lot of experience and do a lot of birds. I'd like to take a look if possible.
Kirk
I don't guess I ever felt the need to exhibit my work. My customers don't seem to mind and they're the only ones I cater to. My work is only average at best, but the techniques and no different from anyone elses. I sort of figure it's like baseball. Ted Williams was a hitter beyond compare, but he could never manage a baseball team. Casey Stengel was one of the best managers in baseball, but he wasn't a superstar in the field when he played. I'm certainly not the caliber of either of those guys, but I just don't get overly impressed when someone of some stature implies that because I'm not a world champion, my information is tainted. If taxidermy required people to be smart, there wouldn't be any of us out here. If we were artists, we could probably make more money painting Elvis on velvet.
GEORGE, I did read the question. Relax! For god sake, I just didn't agree with your advice completely...I'm not a "bird brain" know it all...Never claimed to be. I just don't agree with you, why make it personal? Just somebody with a different opinon. Plain and simple, you bring up some good points about learning the basics...I just feel keeping good measurements is ONE of the basics. To be honest...I don't know of ANY commercial taxidermist in my neck of the woods that just orders a Mallard body and calls it good? My email address is right there...If you still feel the need to rant and rave...Let's do it between ourselves and not waste everybodys time...We've been down this road before.
And nothing wrong with being a "bird brain". I always separate the two to identify craftsmanship. Sometimes Bird Brains end up being birdbrains but that applies to all of us.
No commercial bodies will fit exactly most of the time, be they green winged teal or mallard, or Canada Geese. Every one need to be modified a bit. With deer they take the guess work out of it by making deer forms in eye-to-nose distances from 6 inches to 8 1/5 inches, necks from 15 to 26 or so, etc. You can actually order whatever size there is.
George, We did not take it to a PhD level, we simply told him to measure the skinned carcass and compare it with whatever body he purchases before skinning, or use measurements to order the body.
Ryan and Jim and Rick A. all gave simple explanations of how one would adjust the body to fit. In my humble opinion, George insulted every bird taxidermist whoever actually measure a bird before putting a skin on the body. People don't just order "standard deer manikans" out of a catalogue. They take their PhD and a measureing tape and go measure around the neck and measure the nose to eye measurement. How is measuring a duck carcass so much more difficult - especially since like deer, they vary quite a bit. Perhaps my attitude elicited some of the recalcitant behavior, but if you had not insulted bird taxidermists for so long, we may not have such an attitude to begin with. We don't necessarily intend on mounting birds to always enter a taxidermy show or museum, we just want them done the best they can be done. If simply altering the form causes a better mount, why can't you just accept it.
as veteran beginner, I have found that most of the bodies in catalogs when ordered by species only are much to big. and to answer the initial question about how to measure, dont measure around the feathers , skin the bird and measure the carcass. (this might have been answered, but I skipped most of the posts after the first couple). and if you dont take measurements, how do you have any idea what length, width, and circumference the neck is? The most helpful thing I learned was not only to take measurements, but trace the carcass with neck attached in the desired postition of the final mount. great way to learn how a birds anatomy works. (as a biginner this was most helpful after trying to mount a duck in a resting pose, and trying to figure out where the neck was supposed to dissappear to.). I have had to alter almost every bird body I have used to some degree, and have even ordered bodies for similar yet smaller species that the measurements fit better than ordering a body much to big for the same species. good luck with your mallard.
I agree that ordering forms by species is a good way to get yourself in trouble. Out here on the West Coast, the suppliers seems to have some source of HUGE specimens that I never see. (All I get are the runts, apparently.)
Anyway, I measure the carcass and then order by the size and genus, NOT the species. In other words, mallards, pintails, gadwalls, etc. are all puddle ducks. Except for size they are virtually identical. A hen mallard might fit perfectly on a pintail form, for instance. Diving ducks (pochards) work the same way. I do the same thing with geese, but keep in mind that anser geese and branta geese have different leg settings, so cacklers and ross geese are close, but not exactly alike.
It just takes practice. Get an A-Z expanding file and start saving all of your contact sketches. (You DO know about contact sketches, right?)
Eventually you will accumulate a surprising amount of info!
I know what they are, but i did a serach for "contact sketches" and your the ONLY one that has typed that on this forum.
formerly known as Nancy M?
At long last I am finally, officially "M-less". :)
I believe Nancy gave you the best advise, after you realize you have to skin the bird and measure the carcass/not the whole bird.....George gave you the worst advise....by telling you that it is not important to take, record, and compare measurments is just wrong and bad advise. He has given good advise before, just not this time.