There are a lot of opinions on competing and judges. I've heard a lot of taxidermists, myself included, complain about the way many judges trash a mount on personal opinion, as opposed to facts with regards to anatomical accuracy, realistic poses, etc. On the other hand, I've heard many, myself included, argue there's very little that can be done about it. Everyone sees things a little differently - especially from an artistic perspective. Sometime back there was a thread on this site that got a lot of attention on this matter. In fact, it was later printed in Breakthrough Magazine. The general consensus seemed to be, "we've tried to come up with a way to make things as fair as possible with different score sheets - but you can't make everyone happy". Has anyone ever considered a rating for judges like buyers and sellers get on e-bay. A positive to negative "opinion" on the judge, as well as an indication of how many shows or pieces that judge has critiqued. Sure there will be sore losers that will want to trash the judge, but all in all things should even out in the end. Different state and regional organizations could have a much better idea of what they're looking for in a judge. By the way, Joe Kaiser recently gave me the second lowest score I've ever received in a competion. However, he was right on the money. He knows birds. I didn't necessarily agree with him on everything I heard him say over the weekend, but he was much more knowledgable than most. I got the best constructive criticism I've received at any show, and would highly recommend him as a judge.
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one problem i see is in order to be "qualified" to judge the requirements are in one category and once you have obtained those points,status ect. you are now a judge.not a bird judge,fish judge ect.
this is how i understand it to be anyway.mainly at a state level they are having to use cross over folks to judge multiple things due to cost.i may be totally off on this and if so, we will hear about it soon enough here ;)
When ever a judge, umpire or referee makes a call, 50 % are happy , 50% are not. As anyone in prison will tell you,,,, there all innocent.
As for competitors all mounts are blue ribbon, otherwise they wouldnt be there competing.
". Has anyone ever considered a rating for judges like buyers and sellers get on e-bay. A positive to negative "opinion" on the judge,
You would be pretty certain that those who won blue would respond A++++++++++++
Those with Red "Item received in good order"
Those with Green"Slow at responding to e-mails, satisfactory"
and those who didnt get their cupie doll" didnt answer e-mails, slow, goods arrived damaged and not as described"
Maybe I've given us too much credit. I was assuming most taxidermists were grown up enough to take constructive criticism. I, for one have never competed expecting a blue ribbon. Admittedly, that may be the exception rather than the rule. But, I can honestly say the ONLY reason I've competed to this date is to try and learn how to assemble a blue ribbon piece. It's expensive as hell to go to a show, pay fees, hotels, eat out, etc. All I expect in return is someone with more knowledge than ego to tell me what I did wrong and what I did right. A little bit of that would make my commercial mounts better, and coincidentally enable me to put together a few blue ribbon mounts. I've unexpectedly won some blue ribbons, but would have given just as much, if not more, credit to the judge that picked me apart recently. I saw him pick several people apart, but they seemed to be soaking up all of the explantions and advise on how to improve. By the way Blake, the one thing in particular that I disagreed with a judge on recently was the one thing you and I were talking about. I came home and looked at dozens of reference pictures and ducks heads do not stay straight up and down as they bank in flight. In groups of four or more ducks twisting in flight, there were always more ducks with a little angle to there head position than straight up and down.
Have you ever competed in Chili Cook-off contests? I used to compete with the same recipe; sometimes a first, sometimes I wouldn't even place...different judges. The same thing happens with taxidermy competitions. This year I saw taxidermists enter the same mount in a couple different state competitions...different judges...different results.
Bottom line is that I know how good or bad my piece is. And I can accept the fact that they found the discrepancies.
Doing taxidermy should be rewarding to yourself AND your customers whether you compete or not. I like the competitions because you can learn from the judges (on the parts you agree with LOL) and learn from the other taxidermists. I like the sharing of information. I pick up something every year that I attend competitions and seminars. And I like talking to judges after the judging and believe it or not, some do actually listen to what you have to say. A GOOD JUDGE WILL ALSO LEARN FROM A COMPETITION.
Kerby...
real frustrating when you have so much time into a piece and take it to a show to have it ripped apart. I have done some work I thought would get a blue, that took a third. I did a Gaddwall that had injection fluid on the feet, the feet had shrinkage,feathers missing around the eye and no eye rings. I thought the bird would score a low third. It was 1 point off a blue, go figure, and the judge was Stefan savidas.
A friend of mine took a bird to our state show and scored a high second, took the same bird to another show and scored honerable mention. ? I sometimes is consistantly inconsistant.
The one thing I will say, is that they are all looking for good anatomy, that is why my gadwall scored so high.
I was told when I first started competing, "if you can make a live bird stand still long enough, they will still find something wrong."
I have to agree with Kirby, do what makes you and your customers happy, if you try to mount birds to make a judge happy you will be forever chasing a rainbow.
Just to clarify, the point of this had nothing to do with being dissapointed with high expectations at a show or what color ribbon was received. On the contrary. It is taking a piece and getting docked for things that are just erroneous on the judges part - strictly due to his lack of knowledge of the subject. I was docked for legs not lining up on bird that was very obviously making a left hand turn once. I was told to paint my heads like Cally Morris' once. I was told that my Scapulars were spaced too far apart once, when in fact, they were exactly in the right place. I was told that my fan was sitting too high once, when in fact it was dead on. On a strutting bird I was told that from the rear the wings were too far apart, when in fact there is about a 6 inch variance of being anatomically correct back there and mine were right in between. In all of these cases there were juction problems, glue on feathers, and shrinkage in upper parts of legs, etc. that the judges missed. The things they found were erroneous. I would suspect that they were waterfowl taxidermists that came to a show with a limited amount of reference on turkeys and took flying guess when critiquing. My point is, I'm paying a lot of money to compete/learn and expecting the judge to be AT LEAST as knowledgeable as me on the subject. If he wants to knock off 30 points because it's not pleasing to look at - that's fine. But, don't make up stuff in the hopes that the competitor won't know the difference. If I sound bitter, it's because I am. I'm not a poor loser by any stretch of the imagination. I just want to walk away from a show knowing more about putting together a great piece than I knew when I arrived. And, yes I'm fully aware that if I don't enjoy competing - I don't have to. I do enjoy competing when it involves competant judges such as Joe Kaiser. I'm really shocked that more people don't feel the same way.
took a mallard to the Pa. test it failed, 6 months later took the same bird and it passed-he must have gotten layed the night before --LOL
Robbie, I clearly understand your point. With nothing against my state association at all (they put on great shows) there is a considerable margin for error when there are cross-over judges. Recently I competed with a chukar that in my opinion was a solid piece. However, scaps had lifted a bit, neck skin a lil out of allingment and slight shrinkage in toes. The fish judge (highly acclaimed in his arena) who also judged birds said; "...thats nicer than any bird Ive ever mounted..." I just had to laugh a lil, take my best of catagory and relize that I would have to learn from the next judge at the next show. Not unhappy but a lil dissapointed wondering if it was as good as he thaught it was or (being my worst critique) just a another good piece. I, like a lot of others still compete to learn. I am not expecting to "bring the house down" I too just like consistant competant judging. I think your suggested rating method should be considered.