Cecil

Submitted by ALEX ,SR on 7/9/06 at 4:01 PM. ( ) 66.32.123.163

Your Comment " The Jews Killed Jesus Christ"

My answer to you: If they had not done so, where would we be today ?

The Oracles of God were given to the Jews, the order of sacrifices for the atonement of sin were given to the jews, so they only did what God compelled them to do as they had practice for milleniums, to do the ultimate human sacrifice for the sins of the whole world ,including liberals and commis such as yourself.

I don't think you will ever understand that.
So thank you to the Jews as Jesus said, "salvation comes from the Jews"
Shalom

Peace

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I do not think Cecil

This response submitted by Jim Marsico on 7/9/06 at 5:55 PM. ( ) 69.144.174.178

meant it the way it might of sounded anti Jewish in print. I disagree with Cecil on most anything and everything political but I believe him to be a good Christain and honest American. Jesus was put to death because of the Jewish religous leaders of his day who were jealous of his following and they went crazy over His "blasphemy"; and put tp death BY the authority and power of the Roman empire. Most of the Roman soldiers in that area and day were Greek. Of course Jesus was a Jew. Hence savation is THRU the Jews. The key things to remember is that God allowed it, knew it would happen, and in fact it fulfilled all the profits of the Jewish ie. Hebrew testaments. Because Jesus was God, "the Word made flesh" he did it, allowed it, and submitted to it; it was his mission, because of his infinate love for all of us and as God who transends time He is not dead but still alive, having rose from the dead as foretold. He was the lamb of God as only God himself could and can be. "I am" is the same discription used by God alone throughout the bible such as at the burning bush with Moses. The Jews were forbidden to say that wording outloud, Jesus repeateatly discribed himself as "I am" and openly accepted the worship of men reserved for God alone. Those were the words the Jewish leaders went berserk over and the reason they wanted him dead, because he made himself equal to God. We today put Jesus to the cross with every sin. Shalom


Does it matter who killed Jesus?

This response submitted by Not Important on 7/9/06 at 6:51 PM. ( ) 69.171.240.121

The facts are: Jesus HAD to die. Without his death, humans have no hope or salvation from GOD.

Simple as that!


The Native Americans evidently had great difficulty

This response submitted by joeym on 7/9/06 at 8:33 PM. ( joeym@ra.msstate.edu ) 65.12.40.160

understanding the death of Jesus, and that his crucifixion gave us all an opportunity for salvation. Tecumseh, the great chief once said, upon trying to grasp the white man's Christianity "You murder the son of your own god, and then you murder those who do not worship him"


joeym..

This response submitted by Lou on 7/9/06 at 8:57 PM. ( ljabellman@hotmail.com ) 71.254.214.252

Great quote! So true it is...


Joey M...

This response submitted by Drew M. on 7/9/06 at 9:48 PM. ( ) 140.226.180.226

Great post.


Tecumseh

This response submitted by Craig on 7/9/06 at 11:29 PM. ( ) 66.66.236.195

was confused with a lot of things concerning the white man's ways. The story of Jesus was just one of them. I do think he knew more about the white man than the white man knew of himself.


Alex

This response submitted by Cecil 64.184.41.234 on 7/10/06 at 9:38 AM. ( ) 64.184.41.17

Yes, I try to be a christian but don't do a very good job of it. And I'm becoming more and more cynical about those that wear their religion on their sleeves as I get older and more well imformed.
And yes, I know Jesus was crucified and for a reason. Of course you do know the Jewish faith does not accept Christ as the savior right? To them he was just a prophet.

My point was the blind free pass the Israeli policies get along with billions of dollars sent there by fundamentalists here and our government just because "It's the holy land."

There are obviously some really bad eggs in the Paletinean territory but there are a lot of poor destitute people that have nothing to do with them that are suffering terribly. They've been pushed from their land and they are living in ghettos. And THEY ARE being kept down by some of Israel's secular polcies and land grabbing. If you were a true Christian you should pray for them too. Didn't Jesus say we are supposed to pray for our enemies too?

Just one more thing: A local christian man was there as an observer. He went over with a onesided view of Israel good, palistineans bad. He came back with a much less black and white viewpoint. He said where he was the Palistineans needed a permit to build a house in occupied territory. Trouble was a permit hadn't been issued for decades. If a house is erected the Israeli's come in with a bulldozer and knock it down. If the occupante refuses to leave the house the house is sometimes bulldozed with them in it. Can you justify that?


Jim thank you

This response submitted by Cecil 64.184.41.234 on 7/10/06 at 9:42 AM. ( ) 64.184.41.17

for defending me. In retrospect I should have said Did you know the jews don't accept Christ as the son of God? vs. they killed him.

My point for making that comment and others is in the preceding paragraph.


Cecil there is a reason

This response submitted by Alex Sr on 7/10/06 at 1:08 PM. ( ) 66.32.123.163

Why the Jews do not accept Jesus (Yeshua) and it goes down to God, Read Romans Chapter 11.

Chapter 11
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

So in Fact the Jews were blinded by God, so that you as a gentile might be saved, at the end even blinded God qwill give them the resurrection from the dead and all of Israel will be saved, because the blindness came so that God could save all equally.
If the Jews had accepted him as King and he would have established the Kingdom for teh jews , the entire Gentile World would have being lost.
So let us thank the Jews that they refused their Messiah and we could also be now be called, "Sons Of God"becaiuse of their loss.

Please read things in the Bible in perpective, and do not boast we are sons of God, because they were first called as such.

Shalom


Thank you Alex

This response submitted by Cecil 64.184.41.234 on 7/10/06 at 6:04 PM. ( ) 64.184.41.17

for the education. Now I won't have to attend church until December 25th. I've been immunized! LOL


Hope you

This response submitted by Alex on 7/10/06 at 7:25 PM. ( ) 66.32.123.163

Make it to December 25th or should I say We make it.


Got some inside information Alex?

This response submitted by Cecil 64.184.41.234 on 7/10/06 at 11:02 PM. ( ) 64.184.41.17

Are you one of those that God talks to like our president? So what's he saying?


He is

This response submitted by Alex on 7/11/06 at 11:17 PM. ( ) 66.32.123.163

Saying ,your future is not too bright, less you repent and come to Him.


Well...

This response submitted by Hogger on 7/12/06 at 3:37 AM. ( ) 72.234.131.147

I stayed at a Holiday Inn!


It has to be a Holiday Express Hogger

This response submitted by Cecil 64.184.41.234 on 7/12/06 at 7:48 AM. ( ) 64.184.41.17

or it doesn't count. LOL


Inside information.

This response submitted by Steve on 7/12/06 at 8:55 AM. ( steve@supra-blue.com ) 4.252.198.220

You have a good point Cecil, about the suffering of the Palestinians, but the blame should be more rightly placed on the Palestinian Authority. Most of the billions in aid to the Palestinians went into Arafat's bank account, and the suffering of the people he led was by his own political design. This pattern continues to this day.

I took a Political Ideologies class when I was in Athens. The professor (who was by no means a zionist) had been a member of a US delegation to the region just before Irael declared their statehood.

He said that the main objection the Arabs had was that the returning Jews would become destitute wards, because nobody could survive on such a worthless piece of desert. Nobody else wanted it until they (the Jews) turned it into a garden.

Who killed Christ? It was a conspiracy.

"Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand." ISA 53:10

"The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again." John 10:17


From Mark Twains diary...

This response submitted by Steve on 7/12/06 at 12:22 PM. ( ) 4.252.195.38

...on his trip to the holy land in 1860.

"...We had left Capernaum behind us. It was only a shapeless ruin. It bore no semblance to a town and had nothing about it to suggest that it had ever been a town. But all desolate and unpeopled as it was, it was illustrious ground..."

"...It was hard to realize that this silent plain had once resounded with martial music and trembled to the tramp of armed men... A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action"

"...We never saw a human being on the whole route, much less lawless hordes of Bedouins. Tabor stands solitary and alone, a giant sentinel above the Plain of Esdraelon..."

"...The Further we went, the hotter the sun got, and the more rocky and bare, repulsive and dreary the landscape became... There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, and had almost deserted the country. No landscape exists that is more tiresome to the eye than that which bounds the approaches to Jerusalem..."

It tuly took the transformation that occurred when the Jews re-occupied "Palestine" for anyone else to give a second thought to it. The "Palestinians" were offered part of the Trans-Jordan section (today's Heshimite Kingdom of Jordan) of the original British mandate repeatedly, and as recently as 1985; but they refused. Arafat.

Before he became the liberal darling, there were many other occasions when that whole conflict could have been peacefully and generously resolved, but Arafat's personal enrichment and political aspirations would have been jeopardized.

So, what would you do if someone built a house in your back yard, (and started fishing your pond!) claiming rights of ancestral ownership that they could show zero evidence of? Push them off into the ghetto? Bulldozer? Terrorism?


Actually Steve

This response submitted by Cecil 64.184.41.234 on 7/12/06 at 1:34 PM. ( ) 64.184.41.17

there is an update on this. Hamas was elected and is the one causing all the problems now. And I don't favor the Palistineans. Just don't like the blind allegiance the secular Israeli government just because it's the holy land.


But isn't that the point?

This response submitted by Steve on 7/12/06 at 2:12 PM. ( ) 4.252.195.38

Whether it should have or not, our allegiance has very little to do with the "Holy Land".

There are clear historical and political imperatives, not the least of which being that these "Palestinians" are claim jumpers and usurpers.

Hamas is Israel's second to worst nightmare, and in reality is the Palestinian's worst.

It took Arafat several decades to get rich under his 100% hatred of Irael banner. It will probably take just as long for this new bunch of thugs to follow his example.

Make no mistake; without suffering Palestinians Hamas has no political power, no money, and no future.

Kind of like the Democratic party, on a different scale of course.

So sorry, couldn't resist. :)


Not that simple Steve

This response submitted by Cecil 64.184.41.234 on 7/13/06 at 12:12 AM. ( ) 64.184.41.17

It's much more complicated than that and I won't bore anyone with the details on here but...

Think of this hypothetical scenario:

The U.N. decides that some former tribe of Indians is entitled to there land back and they get say -- Montana. They make it a country and put many of the residents in refugee camps. Then on top of that some sympathetic super power provides the latest weapons and subsidizes the economy of this country with billions of dollars. Now tell me if there would not be any animosity of the former residents of Montana and they would not fight back in any way they could?



Different issue,

This response submitted by Steve on 7/13/06 at 12:17 PM. ( ) 4.159.56.195

but you made my point pretty well.

It's wrong to say that the only reason we give Israel aid is because it's the "holy land". It is more complicated than that.

The flaw in your scenario is that the Jews really did have a historic claim over the feeble few residents who were in Palestine in 1948. The white man can't claim "we were here first".

Notwithstanding, I don't believe the current residents of Montana would fight back in any way they could. If they had claims that had any merit, they would win in the courts, something the Palestinians tried and lost. The existence of a UN resolution means that there have already been extensive hearings, and that jurisdiction has been surrendered at least partially by whatever government was in charge at the time, in this case the British.

You also left out that the King of the Dakotas has repeatedly offered the Montanans far better digs for free.

If you're saying that the Paletinian Authority does not purposely let their people suffer for political and financial gain, you are badly mistaken.


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