CWD prions

Submitted by Michael Sestak on 7/15/06 at 9:10 AM. ( ) 24.49.203.34

i have read (and dont recall where) that the CWD prions are now being found in the meat of deer, not just in the spinal and brain fluid but in the meat itself.
i have also read on this site in the past that these prions can not be destroyed (killed) by heat.

so cooking will not make the deer meat safe to eat?
any body else read or hear of this?
has CWD been found in the meat of cows?

my facts may be wrong, i dont really understand much about CWD except that it isnt good for anybody especially the animal, and i also understand that there are no reported cases of it being transmitted to humans who consume the meat of infected animals.
but that was before prions were found in the meat.

Michael

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some info

This response submitted by John on 7/15/06 at 9:28 AM. ( johncs1@yahoo.com ) 72.174.188.189

Here is a link on cwd from colorado hope this might help

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/BigGame/CWD/


Late breaking report

This response submitted by Doug on 7/15/06 at 12:08 PM. ( ) 65.183.171.137

There was a local news report of a guy here in Michigan who has been suffering from a mysterious condition that includes deterioration of his hands and feet. He has been examined by a number of specialists and the prevailing theory is that he has contracted CWD from eating venison...eh? The doctors said the only definitive test is a brain biopsy, and that would be very risky. I'm sure many of us are awaiting any further information on this report.


Doug

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 7/15/06 at 4:05 PM. ( ) 67.138.8.185

Simply put, thats bullsh*t. You have been misinformed. Think of it this way...if there were ANY validity to that, it would be world-wide in seconds. Thats not a local based story, thats just BS. Not knocking you, as you know what they say, never shoot the messenger!

To Michael, they wont find CWD in cows, meat or otherwise. CWD is a cervid strain. Cows are bovine, different species. Mad Cow is their strain.

For what its worth, about 300 people ate the meat from that CWD infected deer you all read about 2 years ago. So far, no problems. Someday we will all know more, Im sure. Im not saying dont worry, Im just saying dont fret.


Also Michael

This response submitted by George on 7/15/06 at 4:43 PM. ( georoof@aol.com ) 64.12.117.8

"Prion" is the term used for all the protein tissue. "Good" prions are not differentiated physiologically from "bad" ones. As Bill says, CWD is a disease we have much to learn about before we intensify our worries. Be wary, but be wise.


right on but

This response submitted by Al on 7/15/06 at 8:11 PM. ( ) 64.12.117.8

let us remember to be wise has no room for ignorance...there is a very good chance that some of the conditions (if any) could very well develop a ways down the line. ie you could smoke all your life and not develop lung cancer but smoking causes cancer. Do you gamble...play the odds? Lets face it, there is something even if its the smallest not to worry condition that probably develops from this crap...Its not main stream enough to dump tons of money into like the cure for cancer so its kind of a wait and see sort of thing.
But there is more to the story ..what to do with deer waste..skulls
and scraps
When the largest rendering company in the world won't touch it what does that say? When the state of New York tells its taxidermist's that they must dispose of there deer waste so it does not come in contact with "wild" deer...what does that tell you? When 99% of all landfills in your area won't touch deer waste with a 2000 foot pole what does that tell you? what do you do..do you slip a few skulls here and there? What do you do if you have 200 or so to get rid of.I have asked this question at public forums given by the DEC, I have asked this in person to the head deer bio in my area, I have done so in writing. All I get is a copy of the regulations. I send every customer that comes in with a deer ,back home with there waste. The ones who question what to do with I tell them to call the dec surley they can tell you since they are the ones who came up with this brain storm..I sleep better at night knowing I don't have to worry about barrels of this crap. No worries...call me crazy but I aint no Palmer


Al, where did you get that?

This response submitted by George on 7/15/06 at 9:33 PM. ( ) 64.12.117.8

Why won't your landfills take it? FDA says that's where it goes. I understand rendering plants not taking it as it reintroduces suspect animals back into the food chain through the casings on bologna, salami, weiners, etc. You need to get in tough with your Dept. of Agriculture and your DNR offices.

And before any of you forget, living is a terminal disease. Sometimes you can change the length by careful decisions, but never the final outcome.


george...

This response submitted by Al on 7/15/06 at 11:34 PM. ( ) 152.163.101.8

I got that information right from the horses mouth. Its not second hand. I called all the local landfills in my area and none will take it. Now sure I can mix this in and hide it but to be blunt why should I have too? And George the real funny thing is these regs. do not include deer processers! Lets see here I have a few hundred skulls and billy bob's deer cutting down the road has 800 heads ,rib cages, back bones,spinal cords etc...(you know the real good stuff)and he can spread this like cow crap on the back 80. What the frig is up with that? And before some of you jump..I am well aware that deer cutters are covered more so by the ag dept. but still does this really make sense. Like I already stated that waste is really the property of the hunter who brings it in. So guess what let them deal with it. One land fill I talked to treats this stuff like hazardous medical waste!$$$ Ouch!$ I would being guessing but 80% of taxidermists in my area surely just mix these skulls in there garbage and do there best to hide it. I really don't care what others do but I did want to bring to light this issue.And lets face it, this issue will be more of a problem in the future. The FDA can say what they want but they can not "MAKE" them take it.If they choose not too then so be it.Maybe this fall will be alittle different with the heat off the subject.


No wonder I love local governments, LOL

This response submitted by George on 7/15/06 at 11:53 PM. ( ) 205.188.117.8

That's tough to have to live with Al. Wishing you the best.


Al, please elaborate

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 7/16/06 at 12:26 AM. ( ) 67.138.8.220

I really would like you to explain what "I aint no Palmer" means? I dont want to jump the gun, but I sure hope you didnt mean what I think you did...

As for getting rid of deer waste, landfills accept low level waste. The first waste hauler I phoned had no trouble with taking it, via a dumpster at my place. In fact they were more concerned with the smell. Maybe thats the better way for you to go, Al, you might wanna check that out. Good luck.


response

This response submitted by Al on 7/16/06 at 7:45 PM. ( ) 205.188.117.8

Beleive me george new york is a wonderfull place to do business in..hahahahahah
Bill I checked with the three garbage companies that cover my area when I explained to them in detail what I needed picked up they said that "at this time they are not taking deer waste. Period. I will check again this fall but like I already stated I give the stuff back to the hunter and it seems to be working just fine.I know of a few small butchers who are doing the same.
As far as the comment "I aint no Palmer"...Iam not going to dump my deer scraps out back behind my shop. I am not going to bait some coyotes...Iam not going to compost it...Iam not going to wait around until a neighbor calls and asks "what the hell died". You made a comment a while back that went somthing like" I don't need government regulations to tell me to take care of these animals. I do not want the animals on either side of the fence to get sick". (buffalo news june 6th 2005)I don't raise deer but I also feel that I didn't need a regulation to tell me to be responsable with deer waste.Wich we now have in this great state.. Now I don't know you that well at all...But I feel I do know you enough to respect and beleive what you have to say. I would think you feel the same for me. Obviously there are some that must need these regulations...since some did and others may still be tossing it where it shouldn't be. Thats what I ment when I made that statement.


thanks

This response submitted by Michael Sestak on 7/16/06 at 10:09 PM. ( ) 24.49.203.34

thanks for all the info.
im not running scared, but i will be careful, i have been cutting up my own deer for the past 2 years.
didnt want any bone dust or spinal fluid on the meat.
guess we just have to wait and see what happens...i guess.


Al

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 7/16/06 at 10:51 PM. ( ) 67.138.14.182

I agree with your direction I am glad you saw the need to do whats right, and not wait for regs, I take exception to the Palmer comment. John Palmer is a good friend of mine for twenty some years now, and I can guarantee you that your perception of him is dead wrong. In fact, the DECs change of heart over the thousands of dollars and hundreds of counts they once had against him should be good enough proof of this. John, like all the rest of us, once left his waste in a pile out back, or in a hole for that purpose, or dropped off to someone else who did the same thing, until the state suggested composting, which many did. The only difference is he was unfortunate enough to have some fence cross where he once had used the area for another purpose. Just three or four years ago 99% of folks knew little or nothing about CWD. What happened to John was a simple contamination case from years back. Thats what theyre calling it anyway. I understand your point, but like I said, John Palmer is a good friend, and Ive spent the better part of two years defending his name with those who dont know him.


Bill

This response submitted by Al on 7/17/06 at 9:07 AM. ( ) 205.188.117.8

I guess in the past I was just a huge minority. I have used a rendering company since I started doing this work back in '84. I am glad the DEC has backed off...I wouldn't wish that on anyone. As far as my perception of John Palmer : What happened happened...and it could have happened to me if I where doing the same or you for that matter. Hopefully we can learn from it and be more educated about it. If anything positive has come out of this it would be that.


Al you sure are correct

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 7/17/06 at 11:36 AM. ( ) 67.138.13.38

I was just making sure the Palmer comment wasnt a negative towards him personally. It seems like you were just using it "in so many words" instead. You are right, it couldve been anyone, and it sure has opened our eyes. Thanks, Al. Hey are you still running the bow shop? I havent spoke to Jeff since early November...


yes...

This response submitted by Al on 7/17/06 at 2:02 PM. ( ) 205.188.117.8

I am but beleive me impulse buying is at an all time slow. Kind of tough to fit into budgets when most need that extra $50 a week for gas...and thats even if you buy it on the RES. All of us down here are on the BUCKY look out right now. We got the Bucky t-shirts...Bucky burgers...and the Go Bucky Go banners LOL.. God help you if you resemble this escapee! Better whiten up the skin with some peroxide and cut out the smoke signals...cause these there troopers are out for some blood.They shot and killed one poor guy a little bit back thinking it was him. Don't think the truth of that will ever be brought out.


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