Submitted by < on 7/22/06 at 11:12 PM. ( )

The Bible is very clear on the necessity of a person being "Born Again" if they are to receive eternal life. Jesus coined this term, in John 3:3-7, when he told Nicodemus, "You must be born again" to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Since this necessity is so critical, Satan has attacked it with all his might for two thousand years, causing most "Christian" churches to stop teaching this doctrine, even though no one can be saved without undergoing this wondrous spiritual conversion. However, Satan's most effective weapon against being Born Again has been, and still is, confusion.

Fortunately, Jesus lovingly made this transformation process very simple, so simple that even those who are retarded or not educated can understand. There are several steps to becoming Born Again, listed below:

1. Understand that ALL men ever born are sinners. Romans 3:23, says, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." This message that all men are sinners is amply repeated through Scripture . This means you are a sinner in the eyes of an angry God, Who must punish all sin. Do you believe you are a sinner?

2. Since man is an imperfect sinner, and God is a perfect God, no man can save himself. Jesus made this fact very plain in Matthew 5:48, when He said, "Be ye, therefore, perfect, even as your Heavenly Father is perfect."!
If we all have to be perfect in God's eyes, how can there be anyone in Heaven, especially since the Bible declares, repeatedly, that ALL people are sinners? Obviously, no one is going to get to Heaven this way, by trying to be 'good enough' to merit Heaven. Since the Bible says there are going to be untold millions of people in Heaven, there must be some other way to get there, other than by trying to be 'good enough'.

You must also be very sorry for your sins, and want to have them forgiven. This is known as Repentance. The word Repent means to both be very sorry for your sins, and to want to not sin anymore. Repentance means the desire to turn your life around 180 degrees. This does not mean you will never sin again, but it does mean that sin will become the exception in your life, not the rule.

3. When the sinless Son of God, Jesus Christ, shed His precious blood on the cross at Calvary, He died for the sins of His people in their place as a sacrificial substitute. And in doing so, He suffered the wrath of God the Father upon their sin. He paid the penalty for that sin in His own body and purchased their eternal redemption. This enables Him to give as a free gift His own holiness and righteousness to those who believe in Him and trust Him for salvation. making them absolutely perfect in God. s sight! Romans 6:23 says, "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." None of us deserve to be saved; in His love and mercy God extends grace to those who will believe. Grace is defined as "undeserved favor" and perhaps this little acrostic will help you to remember its meaning: G od. s Riches At Christ. s Expense. [The true meaning of GRACE]

4. In Ephesians 2:8-9, the Apostle Paul reiterates this teaching that eternal life with God is a free gift. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast." No man can stand before God in eternity, and boast that they 'earned' their way to Heaven. All people in Heaven will be there only because of Jesus' FREE Gift, which He obtained from God because of His substitutionary death sacrifice on the Cross. Rather than punishing each person's individual sins, God heaped all those sins on Jesus on the Cross Isaiah 53:2-12]

Now, you are probably thinking, 'How can I obtain this free gift of eternal life'? Again, the Bible is not silent. In Acts 16:25-33, the jailer anxiously asked Paul, "What must I do to be saved"? Paul answered "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved ..." verse 31". You must BELIEVE on Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior. To truly believe, you must place your complete faith and trust in Christ and rely upon Him as your only hope of salvation and eternal life. This is a matter of the heart and you cannot hope to deceive God by putting on an act because He knows everything about you. Many people mistakenly think that by merely believing the facts concerning Jesus Christ. s death, burial, and resurrection, they will be automatically be given the gift of eternal life. But such is not the case. Preachers call that a "head knowledge and not a heart knowledge." Salvation is freely given, but only to those who are genuine believers.

5. In John 1:1, 14, we see that Jesus Christ is God, equal with God, present with God from before the beginning of time, and the actual Creator of the Universe. He is 100% God and 100% human at the same time, which is why He used both titles during His ministry, Son of God and Son of Man. To become Born Again, you must believe this doctrine about Jesus Christ.

Verse 14 is most important, the teaching that Jesus God became man. This teaching becomes a point of separation between the followers of Christ and Antichrist. In 1 John 4:1-3, we see that anyone who denies that Jesus has come in the flesh is the spirit of antichrist. That is just what the Gnostics of that day were saying, i.e., that Jesus the human was not God Messiah come in the flesh; rather, the 'Christ Consciousness' the 'Messiah' Consciousness, came on Jesus at His baptism and left Him on the Cross; they believe Jesus was not God and Man. The New Age Movement and Freemasonry have resurrected this blasphemy with a vengeance.

6. Isaiah 53:6 foretells exactly what Jesus Christ did for us on the Cross; "the Lord [God the Father] has laid on Him the iniquity of us all." Praise God! Only the Wisdom, Grace, and Power of God Almighty could conceive of such a gracious Plan of Salvation! God's Nature is such that sin must be punished. Period! But, God set up a Plan whereby an innocent substitute was to be punished instead of the guilty person. In the Old Testament, God allowed the lamb to be the substitute sacrifice for sin; Jesus then became the ultimate substitute sacrifice, for all the sins of the world. His was the Perfect sacrifice, that never needs to be repeated, and that saves all people forever more.

You must believe in, and understand, this principle of Substitute Punishment, before you can become Born Again. And, you must believe that Jesus Christ became the Perfect Substitute Punishment for YOU, before you can become Born Again.

Now that you understand these Truths, and believe them for your life, you now need to understand how you can obtain this FREE Gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ. After all, if I were to attempt to give you a FREE gift, that gift would not become yours if you were to refuse to reach out and take that gift from my hand. So it is here. You must reach out and take this FREE Gift of Eternal Life from the hand of Jesus Christ. How is this done?

Through Saving Faith .

Notice I said Saving Faith . There are types of faith that will not get you saved. You may have 'head knowledge' faith that merely intellectually assents to the facts of Jesus Christ's person, but that is not Saving Faith. You may be in a 'church' or a cult that teaches many truths about Jesus Christ, but who teach that you must do many things to earn your way to Heaven. This is not Saving Faith.

Saving Faith is trusting in Jesus Christ, and Him alone, for your Salvation.

If you think you need to do anything for Salvation except trust in Jesus work on the cross, you are guilty of violating Ephesians 2:8-9 and Isaiah 53:6b. Most cults and false Christian religions err at this point; they add things that are "necessary" for Salvation, or they offer a counterfeit way to Heaven, i.e., Salvation by Baptism.

Do you want this Gift of Eternal Life that Jesus left Heaven and died on a cross to give you? If your answer is, 'Yes', you can immediately have Eternal Life.

Let me clarify exactly what this involves. First, you are going to transfer your trust, your hope of eternal life from what you have been doing to what Jesus Christ has done for you on the cross. Jesus will take your sin and transfer TO YOU His right standing with God the Father, what we call His righteousness . This means that though we have failed repeatedly to keep God's commandments, Christ perfectly obeyed all the laws of God. He lived the perfect life, so He could be the perfect, innocent substitutionary sacrifice that God would accept for your sins, and the sin of the entire world, for all who will believe.

Are you willing to repent of your sins right now, and become a responsible member of God's forever family, following Him and serving Him as a member of His forever family, following Him and serving Him as a member of His body, the Church? If your heartfelt answer is, "Yes", then we can go to Him now in prayer, and we can tell Him that you want to cease trusting in anything else for Eternal Salvation, especially in what you can do for yourself. You can place your trust in Him and Him alone for salvation. Before we pray this simple prayer, I need to point our that the Lord Jesus Christ is looking at your heart more than His is listening to your lips. As He promised, "Ye shall seek Me, and find Me, when [after] ye shall search for Me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13).

If this is what you mean, then the Lord will hear your prayer and grant you eternal life, right now, in the privacy of your home. Let me pray.

"Father, I pray that You would grant the FREE gift of eternal life. May thy Holy Spirit draw him or her unto Thyself. Grant him faith to believe Thy wonderful promises. Grant him or her repentance to turn from his sins. Reveal unto him Jesus Christ crucified as the perfect substitutionary sacrifice, today."

Jesus Christ is right with you right now. You are not talking to anyone now, but to Him. If you really want to be Born Again, into the Eternal Family of God through Jesus Christ, pray this prayer, from your heart.

"Lord Jesus, I want you to come in and take over my life right now. I am a sinner. I have been trusting in myself and my own good works, and in other things. But, now I place my trust in you. I want You as my own personal Savior. I believe You died for me. I receive You as Lord and Master of my life. Help me to turn from my sins and follow You. I thank you for Your offer of the FREE gift of eternal life. I am not worthy of it, but I thank You for it. Amen."

Now, allow me to pray. "Father, you have heard the prayer which has been prayed. I ask that in this quiet moment, Thy Holy Spirit will grant unto him Your absolute assurance of life eternal; grant unto him the certainty that his sins are forgiven. Grant that he may hear, in the depths of his soul, Thy voice saying, 'Thy sins be forgiven thee. Go in peace'. Grant, O Jesus, that he may hear Thy voice saying, 'As far as the east is from the west, so far have I put thy sins from thee, never to remember them against thee anymore. [The person] that believeth on Me shall not come into condemnation . He that trusts in Me is passed from death unto life. He that believeth on Me shall not perish but has everlasting life [paraphrased from Psalm 103:12; John 3:1 8; 5:24; 3:16]. In Jesus' Name, I pray. Amen."

You have just prayed the most important prayer you have ever prayed in your life. If you were sincere in this prayer, I want you to see what Jesus says about what you have just done. In John 6:47, Jesus says, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on Me has everlasting life." In your prayer, you didn't hear any angel choirs or see any visions; however, by a simple act of faith, you have placed your trust for your eternal salvation in Jesus Christ.

Saving Faith is trusting in Jesus Christ ALONE for your salvation . If you meant with your heart what you just said with your lips, you have the promise of Jesus Christ that He has forgiven your sins, and has adopted you into the kingdom, and has given you eternal life in Heaven with Him.

If this sounds so simple you have trouble believing that it could be true, the Bible assures you that it is most definitely true. Over the centuries, man has deliberately complicated this simple Plan of Salvation that most people simply do not know how simple and uncomplicated God has planned Salvation through Jesus Christ to be! If you were genuine in your prayer, you now have eternal life, and are as assured of it as if you were already there! This is why Jesus said, that no person can ever take any of His who are Born Again out of the Father's hand.

How can you know for sure that you have been born again? Please do not expect any "earth-shaking" experience, because in the majority of cases it comes about in a rather peaceful way, a sense of relief and a load lifted. There will be no fireworks or brass bands playing, just a wonderful calm that is deep down inside. But with the passing of time, I have found that one of the best indicators of the New Birth is a genuine understanding of the Word of God. Prior to being Born Again, the "natural man", as the Bible calls him, (a lost person), cannot understand the Bible because it is spiritually discerned (1 Corinthians 2:14). Indeed, it is foolishness to him! So when the Word begins to make sense, to speak to your heart, and convict you of sin in your life, it is a very good indicator that you have the Holy Spirit of God residing within you. You see, a Christian obtains a new spiritual nature by the New Birth, but he does not get rid of the old nature he was born with. That is why it is so vitally important that we "grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 3:18). We must cooperate with the Holy Spirit as we walk through this sinful and spiritually defiling world around us. The Holy Spirit literally takes up residence within us when we are Born Again and will never leave us nor forsake us.

Another wonderful evidence of genuine salvation is found in the "fruit of the Spirit" (Galatians 5:22) that will take place in our daily lives as the Holy Spirit works within us. His presence will be manifested to the outside world by means of the love, joy, peace, longsuffering, faith, etc., they see in us! Then, the Bible tells us in Romans 8:16 that, "The Spirit itself (lit. Himself) beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God." In other words, the Holy Spirit living deep within us tells us that we belong to God.

But, He has done much more! In Revelation 3:20, Jesus promised, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock He has been knocking at the door of your heart, and you have just opened that door to let Him in]; if anyone hears and listens and heeds My voice, and opens the door I WILL come in to him and will eat with him, and he will eat with Me." Jesus Christ has just entered INTO YOUR HEART through the work of the Holy Spirit, to live in your heart for the rest of your life! What great news, for now we have the same Holy Spirit power within us that raised Jesus from the dead [Romans 8:11]. In fact, read Romans 8 to see all the advantages we have because the Holy Spirit indwells us daily.

Salvation through Jesus shed blood on Calvary gives you a deep, abiding Personal Relationship with His Holy Spirit while you live on this Earth! As you read the Bible, especially the New Testament, you will come to understand the wonderful depth you can reach between you and your Creator! Salvation produces a relationship that will deeply enrich your life daily! You will never have believed, prior to becoming Born Again, what kind of life you have been missing out on for so long!

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what the holy [expletive deleted]

This response submitted by jim on 7/23/06 at 12:35 AM. ( )

why why why do you have to put this [expletive deleted] on this site. Nobody want to hear your [expletive deleted]. go to for this [expletive deleted].


This response submitted by Ken on 7/23/06 at 1:10 AM. ( )

I think we would all rather YOU went away. You are clearly and immature juvenile punk.

Agree with it or don't agree with it...

This response submitted by Terry on 7/23/06 at 2:12 AM. ( )

... but it was posted in the "Current Events" forum, Jim. Had it been posted in the "Gameheads" or even "Taxidermy Industry", well, then maybe you would have had a leg to stand on. I don't always care for some of the political stuff posted but I fully respect the right of those who post it to do so. If it is not of interest I do what I suspect most do... I move on to another thread. Please feel free to do the same. From a personal standpoint- as a born again Christian- the only problem, so to speak, I had with it is the guy or gal should have perhaps posted who they were. There are those who frequent here who are not Christian, just as there is also those of us who are.

It is interesting to see what people post on here, the things they think or believe. And while this is a taxidermy site, the fact is we are all human and have other interests, thoughts and beliefs outside of taxidermy. Sure there are other sites we could go to, and some of us probably do (Health Mr.Dux? lol). But it's cool to be able to share, vent or connect with people who are of like mind and interest with regards to something we all enjoy so much, eh? (as Doug would say).

To one and all, have a super Sunday. I know I will.



This response submitted by Terry on 7/23/06 at 2:18 AM. ( )

Got my Mr.'s mixed up. The comment about the Health website (from the thinskinned post) should have been attributed to Mr.T, not Mr.Dux. My apologies. :-)


This response submitted by al on 7/23/06 at 9:57 AM. ( )

Who denie me now, So I will also denie...Think about it

i'm thankfull

This response submitted by Mr.T on 7/23/06 at 10:44 AM. ( )

for the work of the cross, and yes, it is free.


This response submitted by Alex Sr on 7/23/06 at 2:26 PM. ( )

I agree with your post but next time be brave and say who you are, undercover christians are not Biblical "For IAm Not Ashamed of The Gospel Of Jesus Christ for it is the Power of God"

Jim you need an exorcism !

I'm not ashamed

This response submitted by Rich B. on 7/23/06 at 5:20 PM. ( )

I posted this.
It was written by David Bay.
I just wanted to share the message(didn't really think it mattered who's name was on it)
I wish more people would actually take the time to read it, instead of skimming down.. seeing the name Jesus and automatically getting offended.

that jim

This response submitted by Jim Marsico on 7/23/06 at 6:48 PM. ( )

above was not me. Salvation and grace are free gifts from God although they are not altogether free, but they were paid at a very high price. It has also been paid with the lives of millions of saints in history and even today who have died for thier faith in Christ. Some of these posts here in many parts of the world, in China for example, even today they would get you tracked down, arrested and possibly executed. Here in America so many have so little value or knowledge on how good it really is here. So many spoiled prideful ego centric cry babies; it's why the muslims have a chance at defeating us.


This response submitted by Terry on 7/23/06 at 7:43 PM. ( )

Cool post! And you are right... it doesn't matter who left the post. For myself personally I do enjoy knowing those on here who are of a like mind spiritually... that was the only reason I said what I did.

Jim... your post was not unlike some things that came up in Sunday School today, with some here taking for granted how good we have it in the U.S.

To one and all... Have a super week! :-)

by the way

This response submitted by Jim Marsico on 7/23/06 at 8:31 PM. ( )

Nowhere in the bible does it ever say faith alone in Christ is all that is necessary for salvation. Read James chapter 2 very slowly, it says EXACTLY the opposite! Also, when the rich man asked Jesus himself directly "what must I do to get to heaven?" Jesus answered first by telling him to OBEY the commandments and then when the rich man said he did Jesus told him to sell everything and follow him. Just two of MANY examples. Salvation is free but never cheap or easy.

Matthew 11:30

This response submitted by Rich B. on 7/23/06 at 9:05 PM. ( )

Jesus said:

"For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."


This response submitted by Rich B. on 7/23/06 at 9:33 PM. ( )

Being saved by faith in Christ and being truly repentant should cause you to do good works as a result. The good works will not earn you Salvation.

What about Luke 22...

And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Did the malefactor do any good works?


This response submitted by Michael Sestak on 7/23/06 at 9:49 PM. ( )

and YES, i actually felt the touch of the Holy Spirit upon my shoulder one day back in the early 80's. i actually felt some touch me and when i turned around no one was there, NO ONE

and suddenly an over whelming sense of peace and calm came upon me, i knew what had happened, i accepted it and still do.
but somewhere along the way i lost that sense of peace and calm and i wish i could get it back.

perhaps it was lost due to my profession (correctional officer 24 years)some days from the things you witness you just seem to lose touch with humanity.

perhaps, someday i will get that feeling back, but i still BELIEVE in CHRIST and i am not ashamed to admit ti.

Peace, and may God bless us all

I meant Luke 23 above

This response submitted by Rich B. on 7/23/06 at 9:53 PM. ( )

Also John 6:28-29 is pretty good.

28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

And he who says

This response submitted by Ron on 7/23/06 at 10:22 PM. ( )

he believes in me and keepeth not the commandments is a liar.
You see, this is why I hate religious post. We can never agree and they all become scripture quoting contest.

look up grace

This response submitted by Jim Marsico on 7/23/06 at 11:10 PM. ( )

I NEVER said nor do I believe that you are saved by works alone and You guys take one liners out of context. I do not believe you can work your way to heaven. I said read James chapter 2, which I see you did not. "IT" says, ie "the bible" a WHOLE CHAPTER, not a line out of context, that faith without works is dead and faith alone without Gods grace is dead and useless. Its Gods grace ALONE that causes us to have faith and do good works. Faith ALONE is not biblical and not a doctrine found ANYWHERE in the bible taken in context. The thief on the cross, witnessed to the other thief and spoke outloud to Jesus and the gathering that he believed that Christ was God; and who knows his life and contact with Christ before that day as far as being baptized etc. In the bible, Jesus also says "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you". He meant it literally and said it twice and many left him because of what he said. Try reading all of John CHAPTER 6 and coming up with something else, it can not be done. TRY reading the WHOLE bible not just verses that suit your doctrines. Do not judge my salvation and I won't yours. Thats in there also.


This response submitted by Terry on 7/23/06 at 11:15 PM. ( )

I would respectfully say that I do not believe that Jim and Rich are disagreeing on the basic foundation that salvation comes from placing your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour (right guys?). After the fact they may interpret some things differently but...

Rich... I have to side with you in the sense that if the repentance is sincere, a change in behavior (good works) should follow... otherwise how sincere could it have been. And Jim... I would agree that a life saved but devoid of good works is at best a very hollow testimony; only God can truly know if a heart is turned.

And Ron... you say you hate religious posts because people disagree... lol... that is true of a good number of posts on here that are taxidermy related (DP vs. tanning, skin vs. reproduction, etc;). Sometimes that's just the way it is. The cool thing is being able to intelligently discuss why we feel the way we do.

Rich made a good post to begin this thread: the message is one that we, as Christians, believe it we are duty bound to share, and, based on the joy we feel WANT to share. For those that just can't stomach it or it doesn't speak to them right now, well... there are other conversations to click on.

Thank you Terry, well said!

This response submitted by Rich B. on 7/24/06 at 7:30 AM. ( )

Jim, you say:
"Faith ALONE is not biblical and not a doctrine found ANYWHERE in the bible taken in context."

ok I know you will probably take it as a "one-liner out of context" but:

Ephesians 2:8-9 says:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast"

"by grace"

This response submitted by Jim Marsico on 7/24/06 at 9:24 AM. ( )

read it again carefully. We agree and nothing I have said or it says disagrees. peace.


This response submitted by Rich B. on 7/24/06 at 11:07 AM. ( )

is "the unmerited and abundant gift of God's love and favor to man," particularly made effective in Jesus Christ for the Christian.

amen to that

This response submitted by Jim Marsico on 7/24/06 at 11:18 AM. ( )

now read the second chapter of James

its just

This response submitted by Michael Sestak on 7/24/06 at 1:38 PM. ( )

to bad that our government does realize a lot of this or maybe they do..
what i mean, is that every nation that has turned its back on God has come to ruin.
now i guess its Americas turn.

I have read it, studied it and read it again Jim

This response submitted by Rich B. on 7/24/06 at 3:12 PM. ( )

My whole intention with this post was to reach the lost for Christ.
I believe that is a good work as a result of my faith.(hmm.. the main point in James 2?)

What are you doing for the Lord by trying to make me look like an idiot?
And by the way,
when Jesus says to eat his flesh and drink his blood; it is meant symbolically. He says do this in REMEMBERANCE of me. (Luke 22)
He did not intend for us to be canibals or vampires. The O.T. forbids the literal drinking of blood.

good intention! Thanks

This response submitted by Jim Marsico on 7/24/06 at 6:17 PM. ( )

Richard I was not trying to make you look like an idiot; I am very sorry if I came across that way. We believe much the same but just from different angles. But you are wrong about the blood and wine. As a bible literist how come you folks do not take what Jesus says literally? This "IS" my body and blood is what Jesus says; He never comes close to saying this "represents" or is a "symbol" of His body and blood. When Jesus had the chance to clarify himself to many in John chapter 6 He did not. He even repeats himself to drive home the fact and doctrine. The wine and bread become the body and blood of Christ and this is understood by many churches besides just Catholics including Lutherans, Anglicans, Espiscaples, etc. Jesus never even hints at any other explanation. The priest or pastor becomes Christ defacto on the altar and offers the sacrifice of Christ himself in the present tense, NOT, I repeat NOT a re-sacrifice but a sacrifice made present of the body and blood of Christ. It is a remberance in the present and past at the same time. This is a 2000 year old understanding excepted completely and taught reverantly until just very recently revisited by pentecostal and babtist types in the past 150 years or so. "father" Martin Luther, a priest, would of defended this doctrine to the death even after his big break. Its called a mystery of faith and is more clearly understood if you can study the bible in the Greek or Hebrew text, but it says what it says no matter. Christ is the "lamb" of God and at penticost the people of the old testament had to slay the lamb, smear the blood on the door and EAT the entire lamb to be passed over by the angel. You are a bother in Christ Rich, I thank you. We are all still learning and growing in our faith and works, BY GRACE.


This response submitted by Terry on 7/24/06 at 6:19 PM. ( )

Oops... late to log on today... Other things beckoned this morning. :-)

...As I read over the above posts, a few things pop to mind, at least for me.

Michael: It does make you wonder. And honestly, I am not a gloom-and-doom, end-of-the-world-is-nigh type of guy. No one knows our Father's time frame but Him. But the fact is it could be at any time and the Bible is quite clear that when it does come things are going to get rough. Closing in on us? Who knows? Could be... or it could be a whole lot of years down the line. There are things in the world now that make one wonder though.
I do wonder what the founding father's of this nation would think about many of the things happening right now; what advice would they have? Would they even be able to give advice?- The world is such a different place than anything they dealt with.

Rich and Jim... as I read the posts above, it seems to me to be even more clear that both of you agree on the most basic tenet of Christianity.

Rich, I agree with every part of scripture you mention in the way you mention it. And I do think there are those out there that have accepted- genuinely- Christ as saviour, but perhaps their growth is stunted, for lack of a better way of putting it? And maybe I'm wrong. And I LOVE your intent: putting the message out there, and doing it not in a browbeating sort of way (rock on brother!) BUT... I can't say I agree that Jim is trying to make you look like an idiot. He, like you, has a viewpoint, that he is trying to express. When I consider the word "idiot" being used how I understand it, I guess I think about some of the political (world, national or NTA related) mudslinging that has been found on this site...

Jim... I can't say that I believe that Rich is judging your salvation. I for one do not. It is not my place, nor anyone. Only the Lord knows a man's heart. But, to judge by your words (which is all we really have on here, right?), I had reached the conclusion that you were very likely a believer long before your words on this post. I cannot speak for Rich but I do not see anything in what he posts that makes me believe he questions your life that way. You both happen to disagree with how you interpret a bit of scripture. But you both do agree that faith in Christ is necessary for salvation. The fact you both believe that tells me volumes. I know that it probably does happen (sadly) sometimes, but I have a very hard time ANYONE could genuinely, sincerely believe that and not be a follower (walk away) knowing the consequences.

So, long story short (oops- too late)... I take comfort, as a believer, in knowing you both believe as you do. And it's OK to disagree on a few things. For myself- and I could be wrong- it is very easy to believe you both live your lives in such ways that others (around you physically on a daily basis) can see your joy and your faith. A few words of mild dissension on here doesn't change that view.

Hey, it's Monday. My hope and prayer is everyone has a safe, productive and joyous week. :-) I know that's my plan.


This response submitted by Terry on 7/24/06 at 6:34 PM. ( )

Isn't it a hoot when it turns out that two people are typing feverishly at the same time to respond to a post.

Jim... you beat me to the punch. :-)


This response submitted by Rich B. on 7/25/06 at 8:23 AM. ( )

It's a bit more than the flesh and blood that we disagree about.
I am going to start a new thread for this subject.
Look for:

The Plain Truth about the Roman Catholic Church

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