Hey KIM !

Submitted by Alex on 8/8/06 at 10:35 PM. ( ) 66.32.22.158

You said you own a .338 Winchester ? How good does it shoot , does it have a lot of Kick.

Am being offered one almost brand new, a Weatherby .338 with a 3X 40 Leupold, I think is a good price at $800 ?

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What KIND of Weatherby?

This response submitted by George on 8/8/06 at 10:54 PM. ( georoof@aol.com ) 152.163.100.132

The .338 Winchester Mag is a necked down .375 and will rock your world a little. Ballistics aren't that hot as compared with the .300 Winchester Mag and the few foot pounds of energy don't match the difference in recoil. Downrange trajectories still favor the .300.

If this this is a Weatherby .338, you can always use it for a canoe paddle. Ammunition will run you nearly $100 a box and it is punishing. The Weatherby hypervelocities are much overrated compared to energies developed. If it's a Vanguard, you're being hosed as $800 is just a few bucks under worth. The 3x Leupold 40 mm is a dog of a scope to put on a firearm with that range. A VXIII 4x14x50 would be more useful. If the gun is a Mark V then you may have a good deal.

Most of all, IF you're recoil sensative, stick with the .30-06 and below. The belted mags without compensators, muzzle brakes, and mercury recoil pistons can rock you a bit. With those things added, you're picking up extra weight to carry afield as well.


Alex, the .338 caliber is tops with me!

This response submitted by KIM on 8/8/06 at 11:24 PM. ( ) 69.171.240.121


George is pretty much correct on his above post.

I would stay away from most Weatherbys just because of the cost of ammo. I reload and have done some amazing things that I would never put in print due to safety and pressure concerns. Go with the .338 Win Mag or the Newer Remington Ultra magnum. Either way you go, I would highly reccommend the muzzle brake. This will tame the caliber to the felt recoil of a hot .270. Now, keep in mind that ANY muzzle brake will increase the report (noise) of the shot when you squeeze the trigger. Ok, it is just damn loud! This is the only draw back of a muzzle break. But the shooting is much sweeter with one. Bring ear plugs.

A good quality stainless steel (SS is the only way to go) rifle in .338 Win mag can be bought NEW for around $700 to 780 dollars. This is new out of the box! Shop around and look for a reasonable price. Really, if you look, a new Rem ultra can be bought for about the same price. But the recoil is about 30% more!

The .338 in my opinion and from actual use on hundreds of animals, is simply a great all around caliber. The newer .338 Remington Ultra Magnum is one mean critter. Velocity is much greater and of course when a bullet strikes the animal, it really is a done deal! Make no mistake, bullet placement is the number one factor in any shot taken with any caliber.

Here is a little something from my new book:

Loads for the 338 Winchester Magnum
The maximum overall cartridge length (COL) is 3.340). However, the COL must be adjusted for each brand of bullet and for your specific rifle for optimum accuracy. For longer distance shooting use Barnes 185 grain XLC BT with 79 grains of H4350 pushing this bullet around 3,322 feet per second (FPS) this bullet is ideal for almost all North American game animals. Or you can use the Barnes TSX in 185 grain using 74 grains of H4350 for around 3,200 feet per second. Another good long distance load would be the Barnes 210 grain XLC BT with 77 grains of H4350 pushing around 3,042 FPS. If you prefer to use something with a bit more weight, switch to the Barnes 225 grain XLC FB bullet with 74 grains of IMR4350 this will give you around 2,958 FPS. Using a 225 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and 71 grains of IMR4350 will give 2,850 FPS and total stopping ability for this load combination for bear, elk, moose and African game. My all around favorite for general use in North America is the 230 grain Fail Safe bullet with 73 grains of IMR4350 giving the bullet 2,962 FPS. Moving on to the heavy weight hitters and used for relatively close range. For "close quarters) tough and dangerous game... for game that needs to be anchored or dropped on the spot, would include the Nosler 250 grain partition with 73 grains of RL-19, producing around 2,740 FPS, the Barnes 250 grain XFB or Solid with 69 grains of H4350 giving around 2,707 FPS. If you really need a heavier bullet, you should shoot a larger caliber. With the loads mentioned above, you can kill anything on this planet and have power to spare. What more can you ask for?

Well, I hope this information can help you.

KIM


.338 Federal premium

This response submitted by Alex Sr on 8/9/06 at 12:26 PM. ( ) 66.32.22.158

Ammo costs $28 a box at the local Bass pro shops, so I don't know where $100 a box comes from.
Thanks Kim


He was speaking of

This response submitted by Crusty on 8/9/06 at 12:42 PM. ( ) 209.165.183.15

.338 Weatherby. If it is .338 Weatherby which is different than .338 Winchester, it will be in the neighborhood of $100.


The cost George was talking about is for...

This response submitted by KIM on 8/9/06 at 12:50 PM. ( ) 69.171.240.121

...Weatherby ammo. Weatherby calls their ".338" the 340 Weatherby. It shoots the same diameter bullet, the difference is in the case dimensions-being larger.

The .338 Winchester magnum ammo is available any place in the world where big game hunting is the norm. From Colorado to Alaska to Africa and beyond. But then, so is the 30-06, .270 Winchester and the 7mm Rem Mag--to a certain extent.

The best advice is to buy around four boxes of ammo and practice with your new rifle. Obviously this is after a quality rifle scope purchase and setup. Get everything fit to you. Each person is different and sometimes the stock might have to be altered to fit you. Trigger pull, and several other items should be addressed by the gunsmith. Any knowledgeable gunsmith can hook you up with a tack driving rifle after a few modifications...


A word about the 300 Remington Ultra Magnum, etc

This response submitted by KIM on 8/9/06 at 2:17 PM. ( ) 69.171.240.121

If you really like the .308 diameter bullet -- caliber such as the 30-06, 300 Winchester magnum and others, you can NOT beat the new case design of the 300 Remington Ultra magnum. The whole concept gets rid of that worthless belt on all of the older style magnums. And the case design and capacity is great! But then, I also like the Winchester short magnums (WSM)! Good concept, great design and the performance is better than most standard designs. This is a whole other story...

I am not a Remington Rep, but I will always pick this 300 Remington Ultra Magnum (RUM) over the older 300 Winchester magnum. The 300 Winchester is still a great round and nothing is ever going to change that fact! The ballistics of the RUM are great and of course there is a tad more recoil but you can install a muzzle break.

The only draw back I have found was that in a few out-of-the-way places while hunting, Ammunition was not always available. BUT, for the most popular hunting locations, not a problem. It goes without saying, bring plenty of your own ammo and loads and enjoy the hunting!

KIM


Careful of the factory "wildcats" Kim

This response submitted by George on 8/9/06 at 4:23 PM. ( ) 152.163.100.132

The Ultra-mag and the entire of short mags are finally getting the honest appraisels. Jim Carmichael was first to state that compared to the rounds they copied, they were simply useless crap invented for a yuppie market. The ultra-mag, running $75 a box of ammo (And please Alex, I know more about guns and ammo that I do about taxidermy probably. That "special" ammo is just outrageously priced.) Matched head to head, the .300 Win Mag and the .300 ultra-mag are within pounds and meer inches of one another, not making the cost difference worthwhile. The .300UM was supposed to be a 500 yard gun for bears, but at over quarter a mile, why would you shoot a bear. I'd prefer that .338 or .375 H&H at 150 yards.

The short mags were invented to take advantage of the short throw of the sub-magnum calibers. Short throwing a gun is simply carelessness or unfamiliarity with the firearm. I pull that bolt back till it slams the stop and then rack it forward regardless of the caliber. People who have a short throw problem ought to either buy the fancy new autoloaders or stay home. Finding ammo for the SM's has become impossible. Even the brass is tough to find for reloaders. Muzzle velocities and energies are nowhere close to the standards in these. Most of all, when you are out in the woods and find a Mom&Pop general store, you can bet you'll always find .30-30, .30-06, and maybe .300 Win Mag along with .243.

And Kim, if memory serves me, the belted mag has outlived its usefulness. That belt acts as a rim to keep the case head against the bolt face to prevent head separation. Holland and Holland designed them to allow their new .300 H&H to have sufficent case length to hold the stick Cordite they used as a propellant. There was also a basic fear by engineers that the 45,000 psi of chamber pressure (modern rounds, belted or unbelted produce between 50 and 55,000 psi) would separate the head from the casing. The H&H rounds, the .300, .338 and the 7mm Mag fit right there. Still, the rounds today are some of the finest and hardest hitting on the market. I have a couple Brownings and a Sako, but the one I love is the .300 Win Mag on a Browning A-Bolt with a BOSS system. It's like shooting my .270. The last time I touched that trigger, a bull caribou bounced his ass off the tundra at about 250 yards using only a pair of shooting sticks. That gun shoots a whole lot better than I do.

I do agree that the .338 is a great round for stopping elk and the big bears. I would argue that the .300 Win Mag is probably more versatile for handloaders, sometimes I think the it is a bit fast for some rounds, not giving the round time to expand and expend all its energy.


I agree George! Me telling the wife I have to...

This response submitted by KIM on 8/9/06 at 4:52 PM. ( ) 69.171.240.121

...buy a new rifle and all of the goodies to help support the industry is getting to be old news with her. LOL

I like to shoot and the new WSMs are unique just because they do have some advantages. But, when you look at the overall reasons, it is to placate the people that are always crying about the weight of the rifle.

I like the Browning A-Bolts in SS. The 60-degree bolt setup is great! Everything is quick. I hear you when you say pulling that bolt all of the way back. I remember that a few times some guys were getting a bit to sloppy and ended up jamming some rounds in the breach due to carelessness and no follow through. Everybody is always in a hurry. Of course then, if a bear is about to munch on your body, I would be a little squeamish too.

I agree and stress that people taking long---long shots with any caliber should not do so. Very FEW people are trained and experienced enough to guarantee the placement of that bullet. Some people are! But more people end up wounding the game and causing all sorts of problems. For me, the 100 to 200 yard shot is best. The closer the better for TIE and peace of mind when you squeeze the trigger.

I know about the belt on the cartridges and what it does. With current metal materials and powder, the brass is very strong and as long as a Reloader is careful and watches for signs of over pressure, there should not be any problem. But then I have seen some strange stuff happen that defies the laws of physics. Could have been simple metal fatigue. Which according to the ballistics lab at the FBI is common when brass is stretched too much among other things.

As far as the .270 Winchester is concerned (and other equivalents) the .270 is the BEST caliber ever designed (necked down 30-06) for the average hunter in the United States and elsewhere. With the right loads and bullets, the .270 can do just about anything the hunter will ever need without fear of heavy recoil! Jack O'Conner made his mark on this round eons ago and it is still true today.

With today's technology, the handloader can really smile when the beast takes that final nose dive in the dirt!

KIM


Man, this is disgusting

This response submitted by George on 8/9/06 at 5:29 PM. ( ) 152.163.100.132

We've agreed on WAY too much here. I knew you'd know about the "belts", but many "experts" think it still means more powerful. And handloaders are the only folks who ever get the optimum out of what a round is capable of doing. I've owned a .270 since 1970 after emulating my Outdoor Life hero, Jack. I still use his offering of the 130 grain Nosler with 40 grains of IMR 4064. SMOKER of a round.


YES Sir! .270 has a strong following for wise people!

This response submitted by KIM on 8/9/06 at 6:09 PM. ( ) 69.171.240.121

Yes Sir! The .270 will do it all and not hurt your shoulder! I will testify to that. If you shoot ten to 12 hot rounds for a .338 mag, you are done for the day! Hunting and accuracy is over with for several hours untril you recoveer. Not so with the .270. You can keep on shooting.

I was going to post some "pet" loads but I have them in cells in the word program and they won't transfer properly on this forum. I don't feel like retyping the whole thing, but I'll e-mail you the lot of them. Let me know what you think. I do like the 140 grain and I got to give up a bit in velocity. But that Terminal impact energy (TIE) goes off the charts at only a 150 yards distance!

But, dead is dead and the animal knows no difference once the deed is done.

The .270 is also a good long distance round.---Reasonably speaking.


Some of my PET loads for the .270 Winchester

This response submitted by KIM on 8/9/06 at 6:57 PM. ( ) 69.171.240.121


Loads for the 270 Winchester

These are hot loads and you must start three grains below listing and work up! The maximum cartridge overall length (COL) is 3.340). However, the COL must be adjusted for each brand of bullet and for your specific rifle for optimum accuracy. These loads are plenty fast enough for anything.

130 Grain Ballistic Tip: 59 Grains of H4831sc gives 3,128 fps.
130 Grain Partition Bullet: 58 Grains of RL22 gives 3,105 fps.
130 Grain Barnes TSXBT: 56 Grains of H4350 gives 3,192 fps.
140 Grain Fail Safe Bullet: 55 Grains of RL19 gives 3,192 fps.
140 Grain Fail Safe Bullet : 58 Grains of H4831sc gives 3,000 fps.
140 Grain Barnes TSXBT: 56 Grains of H4350 gives 3,150 fps.
140 Grain XBT Bullet: 59 Grains of H4831 gives 3,015 fps.
140 Grain Trophy Bonded: 57 Grains of RL22 gives 2,976 fps.

Yes, there are hotter loads and I won't list them. These loads should be all you need. Stock up on bullets, powder, primers and brass.

A war or just darn good hunting, you can do it all!


Ok, I got over my lazy moment and posted above!

This response submitted by KIM on 8/9/06 at 7:13 PM. ( KMikules@ABCustomTaxidermy.com ) 69.171.240.121

Enjoy the loads and be safe! --KIM


The $800

This response submitted by Alex Sr on 8/9/06 at 8:49 PM. ( ) 66.32.22.158

Is Including a Leupol Vari X that sells for $400, so I think is a good buy.
I bought Federal premiums and it really shoots sweet, plus no one can beat that finish on a weatherby, I Bought It, LOL


Good choice Alex !

This response submitted by KIM on 8/10/06 at 12:30 AM. ( ) 69.171.240.121

As you spend time with your new rifle, you will begin to respect all of the power you have in a .338 Magnum setup. Take your time and practice a lot so you KNOW where that bullet is going to hit.

Consider getting that muzzle break. Your body will be glad you did!

KIM


It has a muzzle break already and bipodds

This response submitted by Alex on 8/10/06 at 1:03 PM. ( ) 66.32.22.158

That can be extended for kneeling and shooting, I don't see anymore kick than my 30-06 Weatherby.
From the first shot I was hitting center at 100 Yards, Am really happy .
Going for caribou.


Alex, you need to get out more

This response submitted by George on 8/10/06 at 2:39 PM. ( ) 64.12.116.132

A .30-06 is great medicine for 'bou anyplace and the trajectories are much flatter than the .338. You say Vari X, but you don't give me a number for the $400 price tag. I suspect a Vari X I because of the 40mm and they are relatively cheap now that Leupold has gone to the VX series of scopes. You didn't tell me if it was a Vangard or a Mark series Weatherby. The Vangards are made in Japan with poor quality steel and bluing. The wood looks good, but lacquer dipping can make knotty pine look good. Most of todays finer rifles have composite stocks on them and the ones that do have wood are usually simply oil stained. I'm not surprised that your FIRST shot hit dead center. Weatherby Vanguard's are notorious for the first shot being great and then you start getting fliers. Weatherby's are just over hyped and over priced for what you get.

Having said all that, I'm delighted that you're happy with your new "toy". We all need new toys like guns and rifles and I don't think you can ever have too many of them.


I want a new rifle too! Any Left Handed rifles for sale?

This response submitted by KIM on 8/10/06 at 2:53 PM. ( ) 69.171.240.121

Since I am in my "right mind," I need left handed actions. You guys willing to part with anything?

PS: Don't tell my wife. I'm trying to cut back on my arsenal just a bit. LOL


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