Hello,
My concern with CWD in which I couldn't find in the archives is,
they say not to cut into the spinal cord,brain cavity, or limph
nodes. How as a taxidermist can we do this with out the worry of
contracting the disease? And where do we dispose of the carcuss?
I was talking to a local butcher to see what he knew about the
disease and how they were to keep their equipment clean. His
response was he didn't know, they don't even know if bleach will
sterlize the equipment.
Any light on this subject would be greatly appriciated.
Thanks
Gary
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Hi Gary,
I will list the recommended saftey precautions you can take on handling deer in a CWD area.
1) Wear latex or rubber gloves when caping or skinning out deer, cutting off antler plates, or cleaning deer skulls for european mounts.
2) Use a hand bone saw when cutting into the spinal column or skullcap, as a electric bone saw could spread particles throughout your work area.
3) When processing your deer and saving the cape, it is recommended that you have the deer processed before cutting off the head from the spinal column if you plan on consuming the deer meat.Skin the deer and pull the skin up around the head area while processing. It is also Ok to cut off the head fisrt , but do not save any meat from around your cut area which could have become contaminated from your cut. It is feasible to cut the neck roasts off the neck first, then cut though the spinal column, cover the cut end of the spinal cord in plastic, and proceed in processing your deer.
4) Cutting of the skullcap should not involve cutting through the eye orbits, as by cutting though the eyes you may spread the eye fluid around your work area. Cut in between the eye orbit and antler burrs instead. Before cutting the skullcap, take measurements between the eye orbit and antler burr for future mounting reference.
5) Minimize handling of the brain and spinal tissues. Dispose of the brain, skull, eyes, bones and excess hide by sealing in a plastic bag and send to a legal landfill.( One of the problems here in Wisconsin right now is that some of the landfills will not take any deer carcasses for disposal until more is known about CWD. That is going to be a problem this fall in some areas)Do not dispose of the carcass in the woods, as it is unknown as of yet whether the bones can transmit CWD to the deer population.
6) Thoroughly clean and sanitize your equipment and work areas used to cape and skin deer. Use a 50/50 solution of household bleach and water and soak for one hour. This is a USDA aprroved method.
7) Do not use household knives and utensils. Keep seperate knives and tools for taxidermy only.
8) Keep your pets out of your work area as they can spread possible tissue in your work area or your home.
As of right now there is no known case of any person contacting CWD from deer or elk. The prions which cause CWD are found in the spinal tissues,eyes,brain, and lymph nodes.There is no known case of the prions showing up in the meat anywhere.
There are some really good video's out now that show the processing of deer( boning it out) and they show you where the lymph nodes are located. You will find them in the fatty tissue in a deer, so it is recommended that you remove ALL the fat from a deer when processing it. There is a lymph node in the rear quarter of each leg, located between the two large muscles of the hip, which need to be removed, and they are in a small layer of fat.
The handling of deer for taxidermy purposes is mostly common sense. I have a lot more info with pictures, but can't fit it in this space. I also helped with getting the brain stem samples and lymph node samples from about 80 deer in the CWD Eradication zone about a week ago here in Wisconsin and everybody just used common sense precautions in handling them. Hope this helps.
Len Gums is the Wisconsin source for info., he keeps in touch with the DNR. His e-mail is in the archives. This was also discussed on 9/4 I believe.(go to the "taxidermy industry" section and scroll down)Use a 50/50 bleach and water 1 hr. soak for tools, carcasses disposed in a landfill. I plan to use a torch to burn off the skull cap on at least the underside. Wear rubber gloves and possibly a face mask of some kind. I am building a small skinning room in my woodshed, and I plan to confine that part of the process there. I also plan on keeping that area disinfected with the above solution each time I use it.
As far as getting the disease, I would be more worried about driving your auto down the road. I have been eating venison my whole life, and I'm not stopping now. But I will be more careful with processing deer antlers, especially with the little ones in the house and working out of the basement.
NO customer has asked yet, but how in the world are they going to bring you a head and hide without exposing themselves when they cut the spinal cord?
Since I have heard nothing from the DNR directly on this, my conclusion is that they aren't to concerned about it.
didn't think you'd respond yet today.
Are there any guidelines as to food preparation. Does fully cooked meat eliminate any treat of transmission of CWD?
The temps used to cook venison, are not high enough to kill prions. While Len is partially correct in that prions have not yet been documented in venison meat, lab testing on prions by one of the nation's leading prion researchers, did find them in the muscles (aka - meat) of lab mice.
Using the safeguards Len listed is your best bet at reducing your risk of contacting always dealy TSE's when consuming venison. Cooking will not do it!
Thanks for the information I'll put it to good use.
Hi Bob, I have check on your info on the research lab with the mice having CWD show up in their muscle tissue, and from my valid sources from the DNR and DATC, it still has not been proven as of yet. I would not take that info as valid yet. I am still checking though.
As for Steve's question on the cooking aspect, if you cook your meat at 1800 degree's F you will kill all the CWD prions, but I'm not sure how much meat you will have left to eat though.You might now have to worry about cancer from eating the charred meat.
Mike is right about you having a better chance of dying from something else than CWD.
Hi Mike, I am staying up too late way too often now answering CWD issues. The DNR is still working on handling of the capes for taxidermy purposes and getting their samples.I went over the initial draft they had and added our concerns.The plan right now , is a hunter will take his deer into a registration station, get it registered for sampling, then he will take it to his taxidermist, whom will remove the cape and antlers. The head must be kept cold,not frozen, and returned within three days. The head must be cut off about halfway down the neck, as the brainstem is locating at the base of the skull and and spine ( the atlas).If the head is not brought back within three days, the DNR wardens will then check with the taxidermist on where the head is. We have told them that we feel that the hunter should be responsable for returning the head, not the taxidermist. This is not finalized as of yet and as far as I know is not out to the registratioin stations yet. I am updating a procedure for handling a cape or deer related to CWD and taxidermy and will have it to them this week.I am also updating the article which we wrote for the WTA's Insight magazine on CWD and taxidermists and it will be availble for anyone interested in reading it.It is also being prepared for the DNR to use this fall. I'm going to bed early tonight though, Mike. I also think you are doing a great job at staying on top of the CWD issue and passing it on to others. See ya.
And the "experts" keep dripping away as PeTA cheers on. If you're scared of CWD, I've got a 100% sure cure for you: DON'T DO ANY DEER SPECIES. The bird and fish guys aren't worried. You shouldn't take any more precautions with CWD than you already do for the myriads of other bad little bugs that can infect and infest you from dead meat. Septic is a tried and true method of killing ones self, and regardless of what the Chicken Littles say, there's still no verifiable, certifiable proof that CWD effects humans. Just innuendos.
Since most problems with meat are solved by proper cooking and preparation I thought that I would ask the question. I don't remember it being addressed in any discussion that I've read about CWD.
I have said this so many times but will repeat it as some are still confused over these claims.
NO HUMAN WILL EVER BECOME INFECTED WITH OR DIE OF CWD - IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.
Humans die of other versions of TSE diseases. Only cervids (deer, elk) die of CWD. The problem lies with the unknown causes of these TSE diseases and if our consuming a TSE infected animal (deer with CWD or beef with Mad Cow Disease) will cause their TSE to now infect us leading to a human TSE (CJD of variant CJD) and our death.
To keep claiming NO HUMAN HAS EVER DIED OF CWD is like saying NO HUMAN HAS EVER DIED OF SNOW - It has no meaning.
Len about your research, not that the DNR is looking out for themselves, but do some of your own research into this disease. Don't just rely on them for information. The UK officials for nearly ten years told their citizens BSE (the TSE version of CWD found in cattle)posed no threat to humans. As of July it had already caused 124 deaths in the UK, with the possibility of more to come, as incubation periods are still unknown. For deer CWD will incubate for 16-30 months before clinical signs begin to appear.
Use the google search engine and type in [prions, meat] - that should give you a start on Dr Stanely Prussiner's (sp) research. Most state game agencies used his research as it initially showed no apparent jump of CWD between species. Since his continued research has found some things not benefiting state game agencies - NOW his research is unreliable ? Give me a break. He was awarded the Nobel for his research.
Our resident CWD "expert" is still selling wolf tickets and he still can't differentiate between an orifice and a hole in the ground. Chicken pox and small pox are both SIMILAR, but different. Innoculation for one, won't cut it with the other. Cold sore and herpes are the SAME, but different. Indiginous people of Southeast Asia routinely drink clong water that would wipe out half of America with a single sip. It's still Chicken Little syndrome and since the CDC and the best and brightest biologists, doctors, virologists, serologists, and scientists don't have a difinitive solution or answer, why are otherwise intelligent people listening to the spoutings of quacks on a TAXIDERMY website?
You are right and anyone who differs from your beliefs is wrong and a fool.
I wish we had all the answers like you do. Then our lives could be as simple as you.
As I have said here many times - NO ONE knows the answers right now about CWD and the threat it poses to venison consumers. Eating venison is a life decision everyone has to make, just like driking, smoking or even motorcross racing.
Funny how none of the real experts know the cause of CWD or for that matter CJD, yet you apparently know that there is no threat and everytime some scientist or medical researcher questions a possible link - they fall into your little world of chicken little.
A wise old man was known for a saying 'If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem'. Well if following safeguards to help reduce the risk of CWD to humans and cervids offends you George - boy are you part of the problem.
if you cook all your meats at 165 you'll be safe. if you dont want to catch the disease dont eat the brain, pancreass, splean, or spine. if you eat any of these, you deserve to get cwd.
You say one thing, I say you're playing Chicken Little, then you post a thread taking a cheap shot at me and what I said, THEN you basically admit to WHAT I said. Don't give up your day job.
have to read my words, do not always try finding hidden code between the lines. I have remained straight and true on the issue of CWD. No one knows the cause, no one knows the threat - especially state game agencies.
The claim that CWD has not caused a single human death is bogus. We do not know that. What we do know is there is reason to use extreme caution, especially here in a known CWD area. Out east where you hunt and eat, hopefully there is no threat.
Our best information will come from medical research that is not finacially tied to the sport of deer hunting. Web sites from state game agencies, deer farmers, meat producers, feed industry, organic foods, vegaterians and the like all have some form of agenda either for or against venison. Those sources of information need to really carefully be double checked with reliable information from independant studies.
Hopefully in a year or two we can all know the answers and look back, saying 'ol'boy we dodged the bullet on that one'. For now we do not know. Excerising care and caution is the best road now.
Screaming chicken little is the wrong road. Remember the first outbreaks of legionnaires disease and all the deaths. Well reseach found the cause and safeguards have greatly reduce the disease since. I, to this day, enter a hotel or motel room and immediately turn the hot water on full blast and give the shower head a good flushing - because that where it breeds and reduces my best chance of being exposed. Call me crazy George, but I have never come down with legionnaires disease.
Now living here in the CWD zone, means I may have already been exposed to CWD, but if I don't have it yet I am taking all the safeguards I can to reduce my exposure and that of my family.
I do not consider that being Chicken Little, but then I also wear blaze orange while hunting and wear orange flashers while entering or leaving the woods. Again these are just safeguards I employ for my safety - why not reduce risks where you can?
Sorry Bob . I will stick with the people that I have worked with and their information until proven otherwise.I do believe it is more reliable and up to date.
as in Bobs case.
Thanks John, we needed a laugh over this issue. It's a real threat to our business and our health - thanks for bringing some humor to it.
CWD was just confirmed on deer farms, involving at least two additional counties here in Wis today. These deer farms are hours north of the 389-sq-mile-CWD hot zone.
Kind of like being told you have cancer in another organ. This will get ugly. The deer farm industry will get hit hard over this new discovery.
Why in green earth didn't they perform tests on animals ship in from other states to game farms Elk Deer and what ever. It certainly didn't jump three states on it's own.
Prevention as george states seems to have been a better choice than waiting for it to get here before thinking about it.
Them money hungery polititians and the DNR seem to be whining about all the money there losing instead of all the game there losing.
Wake up people ! they don't know what the there doin. but they sure like your tax dollars and ticket revenue for all there unnessisary toys.
Many wisconsin legislators recommended for years banning the import of deer, Game farm non-sense, etc. Others shot this down, due to big money influence. Check your representatives record on these issues. Politics and government suck, yet its still the best system in the world. hard to bleieve huh?