Whats going on?

Submitted by Ricky P. on 01/30/2003. ( ricksracks@intrstar.net ) 66.207.230.145

While plundering around today looking for sheds,I was suprised to find several active scrapes,well traveled trails, and maintained scrape lines. Ironically this past season myself and many others found far less amounts of buck activity than years past.Is this a taxidermy ? I am afraid that it very well could be.

oh yeah the area 40 miles west of Carolina Beach N.C.

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no secret !

This response submitted by b bishop on 01/31/2003. ( ) 209.83.43.171

If you got to breed only for a short time each year you would'nt want it to end either ! LOL


Ricky, I too have found scrpes throughout the year.

This response submitted by John C on 01/31/2003. ( ) 64.216.172.76

Not sure why they continue to scrape, but I found one today with in 100 feet of the house. Over the past 11 years I have noticed more and more deer scrapes all year long. Now I dont see the tree rubbs. But they may just be marking thier territiory.


Bucks are ready to breed longer than you realize

This response submitted by Cecil Baird on 01/31/2003. ( ) 63.115.128.237

I had someone relate to me that his pet buck was ready to breed all year long contrary to popular believe. Maybe someone like Bill Yox can enlighten us.


Tertiary Rut

This response submitted by George on 01/31/2003. ( georoof@aol.com ) 205.188.209.138

Especially from Virginia southward, the rut is usually later than our November one above that line. Young does that were born in late April early May, did not come into estrus during your primary rut which is usually in December anyway. Then when the second rut happened 28 days later, they may or may not have missed it as well. Either way, they weren't successfully bred then. Guess what happens in 28 days? If these does first estrus was in December, the January will be their secondary, and February will be their tertiary cycle. A doe only gets 3 chances a year to breed. Those that only just now hit their first estrus, will enjoy January, February, and perhaps even March or April. A buck doesn't NEED antlers to breed though some will hold on to their antlers as long as there's a receptive doe in his area. This explains why a few bucks have been seen with antlers in late March and why sometimes October and November hunters see a spotted fawn running around if the temperatures haven't forced its winter coat to appear. I have a fawn mounted that was taken in West Virginia nearly 25 years ago with full winter pellage and it might have weighed 30 pounds on the hoof soaking wet.


rutting here

This response submitted by wp on 01/31/2003. ( ) 165.121.225.163

the deer here in alabama are just getting started to rut. hunting season ends tomorrow.they will rut from now until feb-early march


THE RUT

This response submitted by Rick on 01/31/2003. ( ) 12.159.204.23

I also have noticed less rutting activity in the late fall months,most likely caused by lack of mature deer in this area maybe?
The state has ruined our deer heards by allowing hunters to harvest up to 8 deer per season in some areas,wich in turn leaves a poor quality heard in this area,I have noticed more younger yearlings and less mature deer in the past few years than I did 8 years ago, This leads me to beleive that these young deer are breeding when season is no longer in, also the bag limit is higher during the fire arms season, you can take up to 5 deer in some countys,thats when the biggest majority of the deer are taken and the hears are are being thinned out, we have a 2 week firearms season followed up by 2 weeks muzzleloading season,4 weeks of war in the woods is rediculous, I wish there was a way to put a halt to this, it is ruing our deer heards.

The state did go to a one buck limit this year, hoping to keep hunters from going to other states to hunt trophy deer, Nice try but its not gonna work as long as the bag limit is a max of 8 and firearms can be used about 4 weeks of the season, They should cut firearms down to 3 days like some states have,let theses deer mature a bit,The bow hunters and the deer heards are suffering from this stupidity.

If anyone has any advice on how to put a halt to this stupidity,I as well as others in this state would like to hear about it. Bye the way I am talking about the state of Indiana.


DNR

This response submitted by Ron K on 01/31/2003. ( ) 65.112.69.223

Hi rick' I'M also from Indiana' the DNR like to hear the out put from the hunters' now is a good time to check with them and find out when and where they will be having there meetings this year' there maybe one close to you that you and some of your hunting buds can go to and tell them how you feel' it does work' maybe not over night' I have been to two of them through the years' we kept our county at a (A) county for like three years' this last season went to a one doe only' really if you have something on your mind' and would like your voice to be heard' then load up your vans with all the guys you can' the only way to change things is to SPEAK LOUD AND CLEAR. RonK


DNR

This response submitted by Ron K on 01/31/2003. ( ) 65.112.69.223

Hi rick' I'M also from Indiana' the DNR like to hear the out put from the hunters' now is a good time to check with them and find out when and where they will be having there meetings this year' there maybe one close to you that you and some of your hunting buds can go to and tell them how you feel' it does work' maybe not over night' I have been to two of them through the years' we kept our county at a (A) county for like three years' this last season went to a one doe only' really if you have something on your mind' and would like your voice to be heard' then load up your vans with all the guys you can' the only way to change things is to SPEAK LOUD AND CLEAR. RonK


Hmmm, Sounds like your DNR is right on

This response submitted by George on 01/31/2003. ( ) 152.163.188.167

Too many of us armchair experts fail to realize that biologists at your DNR are actively polling your deer numbers. In Delaware, we have a 2 "antlerless deer" limit on our tags. We then can buy a 2 buck (One must be at least 14 inches wide, the other over 3 inches on one side). Then you can buy UNLIMITED doe tags. That's done because of a burgeoning HERD. Biologists would have no concerns that you're looking for "trophy" animals, but has a bigger concern with carrying capacity of food plots, overbrowsing, and over population. Those problems along with "yarding" tendencies can spell devastation to your total herd. Proper herd management is vital to a healthy whitetail population.

In 50 years of hunting, I've learned on valuable lesson, "Trophy" whitetails are where you find them. The big boys learn quickly to stay away from roadside and open expanses where does and smaller deer congregate. If you have a high density of does and fawns, the big guys seldom show up during legal shooting hours anyway.

I think it's tacky for hunters to attack hunters on such things as season lengths and bag limits. These SHOULD be decisions made by professional biologists instead of kneejerk reactions to perceived problems or nuances that disturb a small minority. An eight deer limit per season in a state the size of Indiana certainly doesn't seem to be excessive to me.


rut

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 01/31/2003. ( ) 152.163.188.167

The term rut is actually a descriptive for the activity related to the breeding season. The true breeding cycle is counted in days rather than weeks. If you follow Alchiemer's theory of the lunar calender and its triggering of the breeding cycle, youll see why some seasons seem more active and others seem to end suddenly. I have friends who dont agree with me on this, but I trust it enough to plan my breeding in my pens as well as what days to go to shows in the sprong before fawns arrive. The days I take local deerheads in also corresponds well with his dates. Check his book out, or feel free to contact me. Im sold on it, and Id explain the activity further.


MORE INFO BILL!

This response submitted by Craig on 01/31/2003. ( blackbeartaxidermy@hotmail.com ) 24.198.134.1

Bill, sorry to go through a post like this. I would be interested in hearing more about this. I'd also like to obtain the book. Perhaps you could email me the info on how to get the book, as well as how to pick your brains on the subject.
Thanks, Craig


Bill, Not to argue

This response submitted by George on 02/01/2003. ( ) 68.33.234.242

But what about the studies last year from the University of Georgia's Whitetail Deer Foundation that said that when a rut pattern is established within your particular lattitude, it will always fall within 2 to 3 days of that same time every year forever? Obviously I don't have a pen of deer to monitor, but from hunting and asking avid bowhunters here in Delaware, it looks like that magic day for us is always November 6 regardless of what phase the moon is in or it's relationship to the Hunter's Moon cycle.


George, no argument here either!

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 02/01/2003. ( ) 205.188.209.138

Im not sure how to say it. I dont agree or dissagree with theory, but I do buy into this one. Lets say...Georgia Smorgia! Seriously, though. We DO know that breeding sequences vary. Typically here in western NY you can see bucks shed velvet in September. Then gradually you can notice more and more activity as we get into October. Most years the activity around traditional scrapes begins to pick up, as well as new scrapes and also rubs on trees and posts. For short while the scrapes seem dormant but I attribute that to leaves falling in them. The deer still use them. Then as October winds down, the bucks start chasing the does. Theyd been following them for a week before this. The longer they chase, the more scrapes and rubs we see. Usually about the first full week or so of November the chasing seems to slow, as does the scrape activity. Breeding is in full swing. Then about November 15 or so, bucks are agin chasing non receptive does. Why then do we run into a year like this one, where there were so few scrapes opened and few rubs visible? Why didnt you see bucks chasing does in late October? Yet we did see them chase in late November. Im going with Charlie Alscheimer's theory, that its about 7 days from the full moon. The lunar calender is what sets tides, migratory movement and so many other things. We can have above average temps, late falling leaves as we did this year, and so many other variables to make deer activity difficult to detect, yet the fawns all seem to arrive on time in the spring. yet when Alscheimer's chart says theyll breed between October 30 and Novenber 10, I see early fawns the following year. I turkey hunt here in NY state from May 1st through last day, so I see many new fawns. Fawns will hold tight born within 24 hours, stand and try to hide from you within 48 hours, and by the time theyre 72 hours old, if you bump one its off to the races. thats a ballpark way to age fawns or estimate the time of birth. Same thing occurs in my pens, but I wanted to stress the wild deer first so as not to be told its different in the pens. Incidently, my bucks react to pheromones in the wind, not just contect with does in the pens, and my breeder pens are downwind of my bachelor pens. So george, I dont know. I see differences here in my state and with my own deer. I cant say what Georgia found. Its all good reading, isnt it?


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