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So Bill, you see my point about too many ways, too many secrets etc. It's based on money. If I want to know about your techniques, I have to subscribe to Breakthrough Magazine. I realize this is just a forum, people just want to chat taxidermy, politics, religion, sell cars, scientific body parts, etc. As far as taxidermy goes for some, it's pay me or forget it.
I guess, I'm one of those knuckleheads, you refer to below. I don't see how you can write what you did and then say people are knuckleheads for accusing you of holding back. I understand this is a forum and you have every right to post or not post, post what you want and withhold what you want. Just be honest and say you don't want to devulge that information. I'm not traveling from Georgia to New York to attend one of your classes. Maybe, I'll get a Breakthrough Magazine subscription (but, I doubt it). I can see for one on one info, I'll have to troll for other buddies.
The following posts will give people some background information about where I'm coming from. If anyone is interested in other background information, see Bill's post titled: Just a Note to the New Guys. Bill, thanks again, I really do appreciate you taking your valuable time to confirm my views about this site.
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Bill
This response submitted by Bruce on 03/08/2004 at 08:03. ( ) 207.69.81.114
I know there are more ways than one to skin a cat. But, I personnally want to know the best way for me. Product reviews would be good for this site. Beats the heck out of politics and other crap.
If you try a product and it doesn't work, tell us about it. If it doesn't work for you it probably, won't work for me. John C. uses Epo-Grip two part to mount his deer, except for the ears. John C. probably used Epo-Grip two part on a deer's ear in the past and got unsatisfactory results. Therefore, he switched to Magic-Smooth. I know you write for magazines. Surely you explain your procedurs and state how the products work in your writings. Have you explained your procedures for mounting a whitetails ears on this forum in the past? If you totally remove the cartilage, I would be interested in learning what products you use and your procedures. Maybe you use Buckeye Supreme, as that's what I'm thinking of using next time. That'll cost me more money. Which I would rather not spend, unwisely. Your experience can possibly save me money the way I see it. If you've explained your methods in the past, I'll hit the orange button. Just respond, "hit the orange button". Thanks
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Bruce
This response submitted by Bill Yox on 03/08/2004 at 15:55. ( ) 209.130.219.169
I tell people what I see from time to time, as well as my opinions. Other guys in here all do the same. Thats what builds the archives. I wouldnt be caught dead powdering a deer cape, but many guys in here do, and state that they have good results. Thats why I seldom condemn a product. I think the nose pad tools are silly. Yet many guys use them and love them. See? I cant tell you theres only one way to use a product, or only one method. Especially in here. If you like my written opinions on certain products, Breakthrough Magazine is the place to find those. Im more specific there, as thats the format. As for my methods or the techniques I like best, I mention as much as I can in here. Guys do need to keep in mind that I offer classes, so much of that stuff is used there. Im not saying I hold out on folks, but logistics suggest that its my bread and butter, so whatever I offer here is by choice. I have been accused in the past in here that I do indeed hold back info. Theyre knuckleheads for even suggesting so. They should go ahead and call a taxidermist and see what he will teach a guy for nothing! Especially one that makes part of his living teaching. So, what Im saying is, the archives and even these posts are a conglomeration of thoughts and ideas and experience from EVERYONE. We just sort through and see what applies to us, as individuals. It works!
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What is wrong with Bill's answer? He answered you. Afterall he cannot spend hours and hours in front of the computer re writing articles for the forum. He has a full time studio to run as well and we all know how long his turn a round time is already. LOL. Sorry Bill had to put that one in it.
Why don't you subscribe to Breakthrough? It is not that expensive and it sure is a great investment when it comes to learning the newest techniques and methods. When it comes to your education you cannot be cheap about it.
If you don't want to spend a single dime on your taxidermy education and expect people like Bill to write out whole articles for you on this forum so you can have them for free then you'll be waiting forever.
And another point Bill made in his answer to you is that the methods he uses, even though they work great for him, may not necessarily work for you. You will have to find out the methods that work best for you and that can only be achieved by giving them a try personally and take it from there. Experiment around, that's how you learn.
Ok, i have never gotten involved in a "debate" on here...and i hope i am not 'stepping in it' on this one. But i just had to put my opinion in here. Bruce, say you wanted to learn to be an electician...and you had very limited knowledge on the subject. Do you really think the local (or non-local) certified electician is going to take you under his wing and teach you everything for free-in his spare time? No, prob. not. He is going to give you enough knowledge to wire in a plug and maybe a switch then tell you to take classes and get certified. That is true in most all other professions as well. No, i don't think there is any "secret" to the art of taxidermy...just different methods. A trial and error process, that even if you do attend a school or class..that you will have to go through. But the knowledge that you learn here, classes, in books, videos, seminars, compeitions, friends, etc.. is to better YOU..not the method of teaching. Let's say that you did drive to take a class by someone. Yes, it is somewhat costly. BUT it is not just something that you can read-you have to see and work with the subject to fully understand. Besides, the experience that is passed along is not measured in cost...the instructor is paid for the time they spent with the student-but the student is paid with an understanding that will last a lifetime. So, yes i guess in a way you could say that it is "based on money"...but so is any other professional careeer. You can't become a doctor, lawyer, or accountant for free..why should you not expect the same with taxidermy?
BTW..you may notice that I (we) do not make many questioning posts on here...why? Because i view this site, as well as the others out there a SUPPLIMENT to the art taxidermy...not as a sole basis for learning. I read the current posts, and search the archives. I take the knowledge that i have and suppliment it with the other methods that i learn...then the trial and error process begins again.
Like i said, i do not debate on here...i just hope this has given you a better understanding of the "hit the orange button" is seen so much on here.
Sheila Brandon: who has gone to find a profession chefs job...because i can cook and i watch the food network.
My points and views have been expressed on numerous occasions over the last few days, some are as follows:
1. This forum is a lousy place too actually learn taxidermy.
2. There is too much discussion of non-taxidermy related subject matter.
3. There is no standard way to perform taxidermy. There's a Bill Yox way, a George Roof way, a John C. way, a WASCO way, a dry preservative way, a tanning way, a my way or the highway way and who knows how many other ways.
4. Almost all beginner type taxidermy questions have already been asked. They are no longer worth posting for new visitors.
5. There are too many response of hit the orange button.
6. The archives suck. I've wasted tons of time on them.
7. Other peoples' time is also valuable.
8. Trying new products costs me money.
9. If it doesn't work for Bill it probably won't work for me.
10. People get reamed on this site way to often.
11. If you post here you might get reamed, insulted, critized, debated, etc.
I could go on and on, I have made numerous points here over the last week. But, you get the gist of my points from the above. You should also know, I have visited this site for over a year. Before last week I only posted once. I also have better things to do than sit at this computer all day.
No reason to debate with you, the points you made have been debated here in the past. I've read your points numerous times in the past on this very forum. It my be the first time you stated them. But, believe me they have been stated/debated/beaten in the ground here in the past.
Bruce,
This is what we grown-ups call 'Feckless Whining'
If you know...why continue to drudge it on? It is not accomplishing anything.
Sheila
Apparently you've approached this all wrong. The wealth of information in these archives has made thousands of taxidermist better. Everything that goes on in these forums will not make you a better taxidermist but can make a better, more informed person. Between this forum,videos,Breakthrough, and a little private instruction I finally competed at my state show and was very confident to show my work. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I've been at convention with Bill and the guy knows his stuff. He's also very willing to share when someone isn't asking him simple abc questions. As in any venture, you must show the initial effort which is no easy task. Slow down a little and take a better look at what you're seeing. It's not always the big picture but rather the focal point. Peace- Jeff F.
1. This forum is a lousy place too actually learn taxidermy.
HT:It's free, Yox's class is several hundred $$ a day.
2. There is too much discussion of non-taxidermy related subject matter.
HT: Sometimes I will agree with this, however, I've learned not to read what doesn't apply to me.
3. There is no standard way to perform taxidermy. There's a Bill Yox way, a George Roof way, a John C. way, a WASCO way, a dry preservative way, a tanning way, a my way or the highway way and who knows how many other ways.
HT: Did you ever stop to think that maybe these people have taken the time to try "The other ways," Spent their time and money to find out what works and what doesn't. There is a reason why they are regarded in the ways that they are.. They Know what they are talking about. Most of them have forgotten more about taxidermy than you have learned and can still put out a better product in the end.
4. Almost all beginner type taxidermy questions have already been asked. They are no longer worth posting for new visitors.
HT: All Cardiac Surgeons out of residensy know how to succesfully complete a triple bypass, lets not teach the new doctors, In fact lets take it out of the curriculum as it is no longer worthy. There are enough doctors out there that already know to preform the operation.
5. There are too many response of hit the orange button.
HT: The internet has a search button too and I never seeing anyone complaining about using it.
6. The archives suck. I've wasted tons of time on them.
HT: I've been mounting birds for 22 years now and just last night I used the Archives and found a good 2 hours worth or reading, and believe it or not, I answered my own question and even found better ways of doing what I had set out to do. Gee ofter 22 years and I can still learn something.
7. Other peoples' time is also valuable.
HT: It sure is, but I'm sure glad that American Airlines make their pilots put in hundreds of hours of flight time before they let them fly me across the ocean. I mean I'm sure they could learn how to fly that 747 in a day and then go about making thousands of $$ in wages and moving on with thier lives as pilots, but do you really want them as your pilot?
8. Trying new products costs me money.
HT: Being married costs money, does that mean you're going to be single until you die?
9. If it doesn't work for Bill it probably won't work for me.
HT: Chances are, you may be correct.. aren't you glad he wasted his time and money and not yours?
10. People get reamed on this site way to often.
HT: I have been visiting this site for well over 3 years and have never been reamed. However, a 70 yr old woman flipped me off at the drive through at McDonald's this morning.
11. If you post here you might get reamed, insulted, critized, debated, etc.
HT: Try running for political office.
Bruce if you are a beginner, which I am percieving you to be, then don't bite the hands that will feed you in your career.
I personally converse with John C, and Bill several nights a week, and on occasion with Mr Roof. All three have given me sound advice on many different occasions. On top of that, I have never met any of them face to face, but I consider them all friends to a certain degree and I doubt seriously that if I were to ask a question that they would steer me in the wrong direction.
Anyhow, I've wasted enough of my valuable responding to this post.
Jon
I have been doing this taxidermy thing for over 20 years and I still learn things here. You could always take out a school loan and go attend a school somewhere. I wish some of you new folks would have been around 20+ years ago when there was no magazines, fewer schools, no internet and most shops wouldn't give you the time or day. Some of you need to recognize a gift horse when you see one.
DaveT
Not here to debate guys, like I said. This is what happens to a person posting here. Thanks. Bill have I proved my points to you?
Did my original statement really make you laugh? Can you see I was right about getting reamed, if you post here. Don't laugh at to many people in the future. Still one of your best buds as far as I'm concerned, hope you feel the same. Thanks
Should have stated, "have the people above proved my points to you"?
Thanks
you are missing the point here. You are not getting reamed as you put it. We are trying to make you understand that in taxidermy there is no dry and cut way to do things. Nothing is just black and white. There is a lot of gray matter in between. In other words, there are hundreds of different ways to achieve the same results.
You have to find out for yourself what works best for YOU. No one can do it for you. We can guide you towards the correct path and lend you a helping hand, but we cannot tell you this is how it is done and no other way.
In taxidermy a many a things are done the way that is preferred by the individual. Just look for example at the way to skin an animal. No one way is better over any other and many factors play a role in skinnnng as well: pose, damage to hide, type of animal, type of mount whether rug or shoulder or lifesize, etc. One person may like the ventral incision over the dorsal cut or vice versa. Others swear on the belly cut or case cut. No one way is wrong. You have to decide which way will work best for YOU.
The only way to find out what works best for you is to experiment. Yes I understand buying materials or animals can be costly but you can find ways to cut down costs as well. Nothing in life comes for free. That is a fact. No matter what you are learning new in life it will cost you something.
Yes it is also time consuming but this is where you have a choice. We all have choices to make in life. If you want to learn taxidermy you have to be willing to spend a lot of your personal time practising the art and also some of your money to rebuy materials wasted during the experimenting. If this seems too costly for you then you need to find a new profession or hobby.
So understand, we are not reaming you, we are telling you how it is.
I can assure you I'm not missing the point. I think Bill will understand what I'm saying.
A man stood in front of a AA meeting with 2 glasses of clear liquid.He then presented a live wiggly worm and dropped it into the first glass of clear liquid.It swam about happily.He then moved the worm to the other glass of clear liquid where it promtly died!The man asked the group,"2 clear liquids,1 water,1 alchohol,what`s the point of my demonstration?" One older gentleman sitting in the back answered",If you drink alchohol you won`t get WORMS!" So what`s my point?You will get out of this site only what you want to!Isn`t individuality a wonderful thing!
Bruce Rittel/others bored/warning; long post
Submitted by Bruce on 03/06/2004 at 12:54. ( ) 207.69.84.59
Thank's for answering my questions so throughly.
I would like some additional guidance if possible.
The terms fleshing and shaving, sometimes become confused between questions and answers. I'm not really sure that happened but, would like to explain my experience and procedures more thoroughly. Then see if you have additional comments.
I mounted my first deer February of 03. I have only mounted seven deer thus far. My goal is to do my absolute best and improve on each one until I do an exceptional mount. Maintain excellence from there and perhaps do commercial taxidermy when I feel I,m fully qualified. Not there yet for sure. I use mainly booklets #3 (skinning and tanning) and #7 (beginning deer taxidermy) from Serious Sportsman Taxidermy for Beginners series for my taxidermy projects. Have whitetail deer Breakthrough Manual and Sally Dahmes video (where she's using dry preservative on the mount). Have seen many debates about dry preservative vs. tanning on this forum and seems this is one debate you really want to steer clear of (not you Bruce but me for sure). Lesson 10, booklet #3 from above booklets caused me to lose all interest in using dry preservative myself. Have read these forums for over a year now and only asked one question before my post of this week titled best hide paste/glue for whitetail ears (been real busy asking questions this week, as you know). Have been too afraid of getting reamed, seems lots of taxidermists do have an attitute. Orange button has been my friend. Live 38 miles from Monroe, GA (WASCO). Therefore, I buy most of my taxidermy supplies from WASCO. Have used saftee acid and ez100 on all my deer thus far. No hair slippage on any as far as I know. The first one was decent and all others have looked really great to my eye. I'm an avid, even obsessive as far as deer are concerned, livelong hunter. Retired military (served 26 years been retired now for almost 4 years), 53 years old, wanted to learn taxidermy from an early age but, never did start until last year. Have had 14 deer mounted by so called professional taxidermists over the years. First one was mounted in 1972 and still looks pretty good. Others make me sick to look at them. I mean you have to be a pretty bad taxidermist for a deer not to even look like a deer (only one), in my opinion. Being in the military and often on the move I've had experience with several taxidermists. Some good, some bad, some very bad. One deer that looked good when mounted in 1983, is currently falling apart from a bug infestation. Touch it anywhere and hair falls to the floor. You can see where the little critters entered and exited the cape. Are you sick of me yet? I can fully understand.
So back to my questions. As far as fleshing/shaving are concerned. I am retired as stated, so time is something I have plenty of (should probably be fishing right now). Not much money but lots of time. So, I'm willing to spend (hopefully not so much that hair slippage results) time on my deer mounts thus the sissors and knife (also razor blades, scaple, etc.). I have already made myself a fleshing beam but I use it mainly for shaving my hides. My procedure as far as fleshing is to use a large pair of sissors to remove the meat, fat and membrane from the hide (I realize this is antiquated, remember from above not much money, guess I could get a job, rather let my wife work). These sissors seem especially suitable for removing the meat and fat and will also remove large amounts of the membrane (but, 100% seems impossible). Small curved sissors, razor blades, etc.seem to work well around the eyes, lips, and nose, completely removing ear cartilage no problem, the cape looks very clean when i'm finished. Except for that pesky membrane. Will the beaming knife really remove (strictly talking membrane) it that efficiently. On my last deer after I got all the meat and fat off the hide with my scissors razor blades, etc. I put it on my beam and got my knife and tried to remove the remaining membrane, near impossible. So I salted it for 46 hours (changed salt after 24 and put it in my saftee acid pickele. Three days later (seems to be plumped up good to me) took it out and shaved it real good (3 1/2 hours) using knife and sissors again (like I said I've got lots of time)(I figure if I was doing commercial deer taxidermy I'd be making about $5.00 bucks an hour at $300.00 a buck) (I'd be one hungry sucker, I reckon) back in pickle. After 24 move hours take it out, shave again (1 hour or so this time) back in pickle. Still membrane on some parts. Now I know I'm suppose to shave the deer until I see blue hair roots (again pretty difficult). But again I know most of the membrane is removed by this time and the cape is thinned like I said yesterday at brisket 1/32 other trimmings 1/16. So, it seems to me like most of the hide trimmings should be white but not so. Almost all is rust to gray colored again. My other capes prior to this one have been mostly white or at least whiter (if memory serves me). Like I said no slippage and deer looks excellent to me other than guess what (brown ears; they're not really too bad). I guess I try to be to much of a perfectionist (if that's possible). So back to that membrane how to get 100% off without a shaving machine. Is it really possible without one (anyone feel free to comment). I read pressure washer for fleshing comments already. Sounds messy. How about after all shaving and neutralizing right before putting it in the tan would pressure washing work then (pesky membrane)? Guess I better buy a shaving machine if I want too really do a great job at taxidermy (there's that job problem again).
I've also read comments on this forum about nailing hides to barns and twenty years later the hair is still there. So maybe (fingers crossed) my mounts won't end up like my professionally mounted, bug infested one. Any comments/suggestions will be greatly appreciated because I realize most of you don't have an excessive amount of free time. Thanks
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you know, I gotta laugh at these
This response submitted by Bill Yox on 03/06/2004 at 13:59. ( ) 209.130.221.21
Personally, I like the fact that guys like Bruce are striving for perfection, and asking questions...the enthusiasm is fun to see. But it still amazes me how a grown man can still state that hes afraid of getting reamed in here. I know theres some frustrated taxidermists in here with nothing positive or useful to say. But you normally dont get "reamed" unless you completely ignore the protocol in here, and a military man, of all people, ought to know that.
Folks, if you went to a car painting place and before asking for help, said something like "and I dont want you reaming me for asking" and then asked them a question, do you think youd get an accurate answer? Or any answer? Why should it be any different here? If you want to know something in here, its to YOUR advantage, not any of ours, to check first in the archives for an accurate answer. You see better replies when theres an exchange and debate, as you have choices. Keep asking the same question over and over, and youll get the newest answer from those trying to help, but the sometimes proven answer has been answered enough that it wont be retyped, thus lost to some. I hope you all understand what Im saying. yes, theres sometimes some real butthead replies in here, weve all been guilty of it, some much more than others. Try the archives first, then sort out the new answers. A few butthead replies is still a cheap price to pay for a free taxidermy lesson! Most sincerely...Good luck to all.
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Bill
This response submitted by Bruce on 03/06/2004 at 14:25. ( ) 207.69.90.211
Being a retired crusty old SGM, I wasn't really being serious when I stated I was afraid of getting reamed. But, to me some people on here do get reamed. Everyone has been most helpful to me and believe me I greatly appreciate it. It just seems some people get reamed unjustly. Just my observations from reading posts for over one year.
You can see if I have a question, I'll ask It. Thank's again.
Aren't you the retired SgtMaj. that posted earlier? If so please e-mail me (retired as well). These forums are a great learning TOOL, and a tool is just one part of getting the mission accomplished. Talk soon, John
Yes, I believe I am. Let's just talk on this forum for awhile. I really don't care to post my E-Mail address at this time.
IF taxidermy does not work for you.....well, there is always barber college.
Before, posting about getting reamed; I realized one of the best ways to get reamed was to even be remotely construed as critizing you. You should be proud, you definately have a lot of supporters on this site; as it should be. Even people with no name support you to the hilt. I support you fully. But, these people just keep proving my point. Don't they?
I'm 53 and don't need a job dot. I'm retired, probably will never have to work again if I so choose. I'm not lazy though, and do very good taxidermy mounts; if I do say so myself.
I am a true do it yourselfer, do all of the following for myself and did't pay anyone to teach me:
1. Mount my own taxidermy specimens.
2. Cut my own hair and my son's hair (barbers are like some taxidermists, they don't know what they're doing either.
3. Change the oil in my own vehicles.
4. Maintain my own vehicles.
5. Cook my own food.
6. Repair my own vehicles.
7. Repair my own plumbing.
8. Cut my own grass.
9. Maintain my own lawn.
10. Finished my own bonus room.
11. Painted my own house (inside and all)
12. Repaired a wooden floor in my bathroom (after it was damaged by a professionally installed toilet).
13. Repair my own plumbing.
14. Catch and clean my own fish.
15. Gut my own deer and process them myself.
16. Learned a good deal of German, mostly on my own,
17. Mount my own scopes.
I could go on and on. But, you should be getting my drift by now.
A few months ago my alternator went out on my vehicle, I went to a place called pull a part and fixed it for approximately $17.00.
Why, because earlier in my life I went to a car dealership and they charged me around $486.00 to repair the same problem.
I also paid over $500.00 for past brake jobs. That now cost me almost nothing now. Using a $15.00 repair manual. These are small examples.
Bottom line, I can teach myself.
Don't forget your own advice in the future. If taxidermy doesn't work for you.
that's why i posted mine.
All this because I wanted a little advice on mounting my specimen's, ears. It's almost hard to believe.
It shouldn't be too hard to believe...most taxidermists I know are self reliant/self starters that don't share your sense of entitlement.
Very hard to believe.... Except, come to think of it, it was exactly what I was expecting if I ever posted on here.
Well I just spent the last 10 minutes reading this thread....what a waste of space and time...sounds like whinning to me...I`m not bashing you just telling you how I see it...I don`t know how many late night phone calls I made to Bill about 5 years ago when I first started this trade but he always helped me out without asking anything in return...why use his name to headline your boring article? If your so self reliant then why were you in the archives in the first place? Needed to learn something? Quite frankly I liked you better when you didn`t post...LOL...just poking at ya...use this as a place to learn not debate and it will take you alot further..
www.travistaxidermy.net
Bruce, Im sure you mean well but you ARE missing at least some points. When some goofball is killing me in here, NONE of these folks come to my defense, they love to watch me squirm or see what Ill say back, that I know! But if your point is very much invalid, like this post, theyll come out in droves to defend...not me, but the point itself. Theyre all nice folks, but they all see what you dont. Its ok, though, as we all learn.
I dont know how I can say what I did above any more delicately. Im hired by Breakthrough to evaluate things sometime by way of payment for those articles. Every product I dont care for personally is just not mentioned. I gave you two examples of products others liked and I didnt. Again, as tactfully as I could. This isnt the place or format for me to do all that, the magazine is. Personally, I dont know a taxidermist worth his salt that doesnt get Breakthrough Mag. No gimmick or hook, its just too good to omit, thats all.
I cant go into great detail in here on mounting techniques because number one, I dont want to, Im too lazy to type that much. Number two is that it IS in the archives and I for one, will not keep reanswering them, I dont [expletive deleted] either, but I do just skip the most frequently asked ones. Number three is, counting phone calls, forums, chats and shows, Im always doing what you think Im not already. If after all that, someone (to whom I did indeed refer to as a knucklehead) should STILL say Im holding back purely for my own financial gain is...a knucklehead! If I hold back, its because of the reasons I just stated above. Yes, you wont see me going into great details as to the finer points of papillae rebuilding on second generation mouth molds for deer, for example. That took a lot of time and $$$ to learn, and Im just not willing to shair that so freely. Ask Bob B. or Fred V. or Tom F. for starters if Ive shared that info. Thats just one example, though.
I have to be careful how I support a product. Not because of the obvious stated positives, but the IMPLIED negatives. If I say I love the new McKenzie Tan, then someone asks what Ive got against (fill in the blank with-EZ-100, LiquaTan, Lutan, autotanners, spit, etc) Everyone is in here and has equal billing. So I dont tell you that such and such glue fails me miserably. Because that same product might work fantastic for someone else, but you dont know his name as well, so...see? Plus, I may like that product, just with a different application. I used to drive Steve Steinbring crazy because I used one of his better two part epoxies for something different than the other guys were all using it for. I still order it, but I havent mentioned it, as he has since developed other products for that very procedure. See?
So, its not about the money as you wish to see it, but its a matter of a time and place. Funny thing about name calling. I seldom (once in awhile, but not often) call someone in here a name directly. I prefer to just throw a name out there and see who goes and claims it. Sorta like lifting old boards looking for snakes. If you ask me how to fix a torn ear edge, Ill either give you a quick explanation, or tell you I just saw it posted in last months thread, for archives. If you ask me what my method is to mounting ears, I probably wont post a detailed reply. Not because Im a d*ck, but because Im a lazy one!
As for being reamed or debated...if you make a statement that so many others plainly see an obvious alternative to, well, youll have a debate. Heres a funny thing, we silly humans, we are...if you post something as an opinion or statement for others to read, and the format allows a reply, youll probably get one, or more.
By the way, I havent used the phrase "troll for buddies" in awhile, so I see you have been using the archives...
Bill, how do you tan a deer hide? LOL
Tornado season is coming up, I should have my shop set up, plenty of room.... hint hint
DaveT
Put yourself in bill's shoes, If you were as successful as he is in taxidermy, and had as much time, money, trial and error invested as he has in it, would you come on here and tell EVERYTHING you know about taxidermy, give me a break !