I have some kevlar thread that I use to sew my capes up. I've had the same spool for several years. I've noticed this year that my stitching seems to be trying to gap open more than in the past. I've switched to Krowtann,(in the past I tanned with Liqua Tan) shave the hides with a Dakota flesher, use Buckeye paste, so I'm wondering if the Kevlar thread could be the culprit? Doesn't seem likely, but I don't know what else it could be. Any suggestions?
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Did you ever consider it might be the KROTANN. It's an alum tan and regardless of all those lustrous statements about such great stretch it has, what goes up,must comes down. That alum eventually shrinks the hide just like dry preservative (it has alum in most DP). Bit a green persimmon and see what it does to your mouth.
Now they're disguising the Krowtann questions aren't they George. But you see right through it don't you!
I just wanted another opinion. I do like the simplicity of the krowtann, however if it's gonna cause me problems I'll go back to the Liqua Tan.
But I know how you feel about DP and have seen the posts you've made about defending it, yet you blast the Krowtann which is also an alum tan correct? What gives? Is there some difference in the chemical makeup that makes the Krowtann inferior to the DP? Again I'm not trying to be a smartalec, because I value your opinion, just curious why you feel the way you do.
I just saw your site from another post, pretty good, it's a nice start, nice pictures.
Jeez old Geez get over it, you are guess at it George. You preach the great paint on tan of Rhinehurt and bitch when someone has something better.
Paint your alum tan on and make all the claims you want to, did I say alum tan in Rhinefart paint on a raw skin!
George you seem like a very smart person but its time you get over the ALUM tans, they have been around longer than you.
Lutan, Lutan-f, Lutan-FN are alum tans tooooo of can you not read the fricken ingredients listed.
First world Aluminum Chloride, base for BASF Lutan see the worlf Alum, there not George we are not talking the ALUM used to pickle cucumbers.
Aluminum Chlorhydrate you put under your arms everday, or you stink! Now think about this it is an Astringent.
What does an Astringent do, first it kills bacteria and can even kill virus'.
Look at the byproducts of producing Aluminium Chloride LUTAN-FN
Potassium aluminum sulfate (KAl(SO4)2·12H2O, CAS RN: 7784-24-9 (Dodecahydrate), 10043-67-1 (Anhydrous)
Sodium aluminum sulfate (NaAl(SO4)2·12H2O, CAS RN: 10102-71-3)
Ammonium aluminum sulfate (NH4Al(SO4)2·12H2O, CASR RN: 7784-25-0 (Anhydrous), 7784-26-1 (Dodecahydrate)
Chromium potassium sulfate (KCr(SO4)2·12H2O, CAS RN: 10141-00-1 (Anhydrous), 7788-99-0 (Dodecahydrate)
Aluminum fluorosulfate (FAl(SO4)2·12H2O, CAS RN: 73680-58-7)
Aluminite (Al2(SO4)(OH)4·7H2O, also known as websterite) Native monoclinic hydrous aluminum sulfate; used in tanning, papermaking, and water purification.
So my bet is that there is a lack of glue adhesion in the seem area.
Maybe the skin is stretched a bit tight the form a bit large.
Any submersion tan is a far a paint on, the submersion tan has had a chance to soak the skin for a few days before mounting.
I haven't DP'd a deer cape in 20 years, but the Krowtann capes I tried this fall, remind me of DP shrinkage. I used Epo-Grip epoxy and still the cape dried with the lips pulling apart and gaps around the glass eyes. I for one will be going back to the paint on tan. I'm like George, I like the ATS cream after a good pickling. The shrinkage from the krowtann didn't ruin the mounts, but they are just not the quality I like to put out, even tho the krowtann process is very simple I don't see myself using it anymore.
I make no secrets of what I feel about alum tans. I USED THEM BEFORE YOU WERE WARM THOUGHTS. It's an antiquated tan in my book. It washes out,it shrinks, and it cracks. I accept that in an alum tan as I do in using DP. "Ampersand Boy" used the word "astringent". Look it up. He can bad mouth the paint ons all he wants, but the facts remain that by true definition, on a tannic acid can "tan". I dare any one of you whiz kids to give me a SINGLE DEFINITION OF WHAT A "TAN" REALLY IS. It's a very LOOSE term we use in this business at best and what you ASSUME, is hardly what's accepted universally.
Now to answer your question Bobbi, I no longer DP large game and I'd never go back even though I KNOW the epoxy hide pastes will hold them quite well. I'd never use an alum tan because I subscribe to the theory written by Bruce Rittel that alum tans eventually break down and form sulfuric acid that destroys the hide. That's exactly the reason we stopped using the antiquated "pickle tans" of the 19th century and early 20th century. With a pickle tan, you just dropped your cape in diluted sulfuric acid for a few weeks, hosed it off and mounted it. There were TERRIBLE shrinkage problems as the concentration of acid differed and that's when that era's whiz kids came up with other alternatives for taxidermy. That's why we neutralize today after a pickle regardless if we're using a submersible tan (which I'd always say was the very best choice) OR a paint on tan which does exactly the same thing only the saturation is limited to the amount coated on the skin.
Bobbie, before Fireline and Kevlar, I used nylon parachute stitching thread and waxed polyester twine to sew with. It never was the thread that caused the drumming and stretching. It's the exceptional integral strength within the hides structure contracting as it dries. No thread can withstand those pressures without the help of a superior adhesive working in concert with it.
George was doing this stuff before the day that you guys went to a picnic with your fathers and came home in your mothers. What he gave was a straight answer..........The thread ain't got a !@#%@^%@#$$^%@#$%#$% thing to do with her problem. And I don't know who &&& is, but that cut and paste chemistry lesson just prooved you have more time on your hands than common sense.
Bobbi, girl, use better hide glue and pin the edges of your seam until it dries. Pull pins and beat down any irregular features with a bubber mallet.........Whack it hard! Makes you feel good.
Make that a rubber mallet.....LOL....Or a blubber mallet....whatever. Kevlar has zero stretch, so any give has to be in the hide, not the thread. Personally, I use a flat carpet thread and yank it up real tight....don't have the problems you describe with any tan, but then I am one of those fit nutz. I don't stretch anything nature didn't intend to be stretched.