I have used McKenzie forms almost exclusively for the last few years. I really like the look of their heads but way too often the lower neck and shoulders are very tight. The front half fits fine but I often have to rasp other areas down. And, I am ordering slightly smaller than my skinned measurements. I have been tanning the capes myself but this year I am using a commercial wet tan. Both have given me good stretch. My question is this...is there any new forms out with similar good looking, narrow heads like McKenzie but slightly smaller shoulders? Thanks, Lance
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There are several outstanding forms on the market, including McKenzies. You just happened to figured out one of the problems. All forms have their problems here and there. It is our responsibility as taxidermists to correct any problems we encounter. The longer you do taxidermy, the more you figure out these problems. Forms are sculpted by taxidermists, and are their interpretation of the species. There is not a golden rule that says they are 100% accurate. Your deer may work better on: Coombes Classics, Ben Mears, Hilton Epply's, or Joe Meders. These are all outstanding forms. Good Luck.
I've mounted deer from all over North America and I've heard the usual "McKenzie doesn't fit Oklahoma/Texas, Missouri/South Dakota/Virginia/Michigan deer" to which I reply BULLSHIFT. A deer hide is the most resilient skin out there next to bears and bobcats. A good wet tanned deer hide, measured properly will fit a McKenzie form. You can stretch the muzzle or shrink the muzzle half an inch, but if your neck measurements are correct, they fit.
My question is, are you sure your anatomical markers are placed correctly? If you brisket is set properly and if the "arm pits" are aligned, the neck will fit. Often times people try to pull a hide BACK on the form. The cape should actually LAY on the form.
Try this next time (much to the dismay of half the people on this forum). Stop measuring the skinned deer. Measure through the hide. Use a quarter inch tape and PULL IT TIGHT UNDER THE CHIN. You can almost bank on adding 2 inches for the "3 inches down below the neck" measurement. Take you E-N measurement and order that form. Guarantee it will fit. If you have a 19 inch TIGHT neck measurement, the 3 inch down measurement will be 21-22, no more, no less. If that form fits a 7 inch E-N and your cape is 6 3/4, the form will fit. If the form is 6 3/4 and your E-N is 7, align the anatomical markers and it WILL FIT.
Now I know that one is going to raise all kinds of ire, but I won't be convinced differently. I've done too many of them to be swayed.
Never have an issue with these forms.. they are great.
Never have an issue with these forms.. they are great.
Ive mounted deer from several differnt states im in West Virginia and i use only McKenzie forms and have never had problems with my hides fitting the forms i mweasure exactly as George stated.And i to have seen guys on here saying certian forms arent for deer in certian states like George said its pure bullship and ill never be convinced other wise.Stop pulling the hide to far back on your forms.I usally dont reply to many of the posts on here but i couldnt hold back on this one.
I have had this problem too.mostly on the 9800 form about6 inches from the top of shoulder. But it sounds like I'm pulling the hide back towards the shoulder to far.Going to try buckeye hide paste instead of chaulking. should that help it slide around better. I.m learning.
Is all i use and i like it very well i dont think chaulk is actually an adhesive anyhow,ive herd of alot of people using it but i would never use it hide paste arent that expensive so why not use it.Your problems with the forms could be the way you measure or your pulling the hide back to far on the form as George said there actually suposed to lay on the form.
The McKenzie forms are tight around the shoulders and base of neck. I'm from Texas and do mostly Texas deer and my capes are tanned by STFD. The McKenzie is just sculpted off of larger bodied northern deer. Our large deer fit with some work, say the 18+ inch necks. But go smaller than that and you will have to cut down the body. Ron Schaefer had a series out with Noonkester that addressed this area but unfortunantly, when McKenzie bought them out, they didn't pick up his series. But don't worry Lance, you aren't crazy. You can talk to most of the guys at the Texas state show and they will tell you the same thing. Its just part of our job to cut them down and make them fit. Good luck.
Les
And your statement continues the mythology. I'd guarantee that you're measureing your deer carcass and THEN ordering a form before you get the tanned hide back. IF YOU ARE, your argument is null and void. Different tans effect a hide differently. Most Texas deer are runts compared to the northern tier animals and if you stick to that first number under an E-N measurement (i.e. the skinny neck "pre-rut" deer) even Texas deer will fit. I know for a fact that McKenzie deer are NOT "sculpted off larger bodied northern deer". McKenzie is in Granite Quarry, North Carolina, the epicenter of the "Virginia deer" that look a lot like Texas deer. They're a combination of ALL whitetail species across this country rolled into one category. Next time you look at their catalog, go to the 8 1/4 E-N measurement. Now THAT'S a northern tier deer. Our 1 1/2 year old spikes are usually 130-150 pounds. When you get to the 5 year olds, if you can ever find one, 200+ pounds is the normal. You'd call a deer like that a steer in Texas.
McKenzies smaller size mule deer forms are long and skinny necked and look to much like whitetails; nice faces but otherwise they suck. Some of the bigger muley sizes are "OK"
I rehydrate my capes after I receive them back and order forms off of those measurements. You take a deer down here with a 7 1/4 eye to nose and 16.5 to 17 inch neck and put it on one of McKenzies 6500's. Your brisket will be halfway up the neck. Everything fits great on the head and neck right up to the brisket. Shave the shoulders and back down some and the brisket slides into place. That's one of the reasons I loved Ron's forms. And most of the south Texas deer that come in 5 1/2 years or older will go 180lbs+. Those fit fine to a T. Not the smaller ones though. And just because McKenzie is located in North Carolina, that doesn't mean all of their sculptings came off of local deer.
Les
Again, I'd never use the 6500 series on a commercially tanned hide of a southern tier deer. That line is almost exclusively for the "big guys" or the "Arnold" look in deer. A dry tanned hide will always have problems and that's the main reason I stopped with the dry tans years ago. No amount of rehydration in the world is going to restore the shrinkage for a 6500 series. No one is going to convince me that a deer mannikin won't fit simply because they "use northern tier sculpting and we have southern deer". Measure correctly, they fit correctly.
Coombs taxidermy forms and they will fit like a glove
Try a Coombs form, they fit southern deer great!
When I do deer from Texas and Mexico, I always notice how much those deer "look" like McKenzie forms...and I use them for those deer exclusively because of it! When I mount our big northern deer more times then not I actually beef up the McKenzies, every series of them. Im with the guys who say to bring the cape forward, and also downward, as you mount it.
I live in south Texas and these deer do Not look like McKenzies deer forms!
I have been mounting deer for a long time and I do pull my capes forward and down. I also know how to use and read a tape measure.I always measure before and after tanning.
Yes , McKenzie deer forms will work to some degree.But, Buy it to fit the head and you will have to streach the sh~t out of the shoulders. Buy it to fit the neck and it will swallow the head.I don't care what they are sculpted from.I use McKenzie for many many things,just not deer.
George,YOUR argument is null and void,because I measure after the tan and soak-up and the necks are still to long.Plus,no runts here,I get alot of deer dressing out at 180 to 200 pounds. There measurements are normally 6 1/2 or 6 3/4 E-N x 24" and try this one,top of eye socket to bottom of jaw line 7 1/2" , I can not seam to find these in McKenzie.If you get a form with the neck measurement,then the neck on the form is to long.I like the briskets were they belong.
Yes,deer do look different from state to state and sometimes in the same state. Stop being so narrow minded.If they look different maybe they fit different? you think?
You are not crazy.
But not sure what forms you should use.
And found that the necks measure as much as 1.5 inches larger
than what they're supposed to be on some forms. frank
with everyone to a point....I use a lot of Mckensie deer and yes they fit some to a T but I must say, most are too tight in front of and at the shoulders. I've mounted many and usually make them fit but I've also found in measuring the actual form it is bigger that what they say it is....sometimes significantly. I've been wondering what I'm doing wrong but reading this, I'd say nothing.
I have one that is TIGHT on a Mckensie and ordered the "same" from Epply.....the Epply fit like a glove. It measures what it says it is supposed to be and the neck shoulder area is a little smaller. GREAT FIT!