every thing i read about d/p on this website is bad ihae used it for 10 years NO PROBLEM! the first deer head i mounted i tanned and it was HELL ON EARTH, it took too long. to much work and to top it off the hair slipped on the back of neck and it looks goofy now. D/P is the way to go all you do after you have fleshed the cape is rub abunch of it on there and mount.
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I have been mounting heads for 6 yrs. 5 to 8 a year. tanned them all. I started this because of my love for hunting and animals. Plus I thought I could make soom extra money. I actually loose money because of the time I have in a mount. Plus I can`t make myself charge friends and family. The top two taxidermist around here use dry preservitive. one charges 275 the other 305.I feel like I need to charge less than them because I don`t have the experience they do. If i charged 300. I figure I would make about 6 bucks an hr. I am thinking about quiting, unless I can cut my time way down.
Granted, many of the "icons" don't like to even see the word DP, but there are a few of us hardheads here who won't let them get by that easily. Personally, I tan all my big game, but I keep 25 pounds of DP in my shop at all times for small game, birds and even fish (used in a liquid form). Probably more taxidermists use DP than tanning, but they are the working class stiffs who don't often come on the Taxidermy Net. Most of them when asked will tell you, "I'm not going on there with those egotistically a-holes." But don't think that the suppliers don't know a different story. Most of the videos on deer mounting available to beginners involves dry preservative and that comes from real icons in the industry.
So, you have to toughen your skin a little and the next time you see a guy bashing DP, call him to task on it. Ask him when the last time he saw a DP mount eaten by dermistids was. Then ask him about when the last time he saw a TANNED hide destroyed by dermistids was. His first answer better be "zero" and if his last answer is, he hasn't been doing taxidermy long enough yet.
DP has its place in taxidermy, just not at my studio, as an example. I wont tell a guy DONT use it, its just that Ive mounted a few more heads then the ones described above, and have gotten used to the qualities of a tanned cape. Its what I prefer to put together. Its the mechanics, not even worried about bug infestations, etc. You get too many bugs, heck theyd eat a LIVE deer! Tanned capes react and mount the way Im used to, and its what I prefer. Now, wanna argue over which DP method, tan choice, pickle or not, how to shave, which...
thats just plain dumb. ive beent doing taxidermy for almost 2 years and i get 475 for a deer head. half of the work i do is for friends and family, especially when i just started. if i didnt charge them, how would i make a living. even at 475, im not making enough. as far as dp goes, ive never used it on anything. ive seen it used and if it works for you, and your customer is happy fine. then again, if youre not charging, how could they complain!
I used DP for almost thirty years and thought it to be a great product. I kept all of my capes and skins in the shop and did not have to worry about a tannery taking months or losing a cape or hide. I have mounts that have been up for close to 30 years and look very good, however I have found that if the humidity is not just right that you may see some cracking around the eyes, lips and nostrils on deer and other big game heads. I also found that many deer heads would pull at the stiches or around the anlers leaving a gap that had to be filled when finishing and this creates extra work let alone something the just does not look great. DP works very well on small animals, but you really have to watch your humidity and drying time, make sure that you have plenty of airflow in the drying room or you may find the hide retaining extra moisture and creating problem areas that may even slip. I now have moved on to using a different tanning product, mainly because of the cracking around deer eyes, and the extra time invested in cleaning the mount prior to finish work. If your comfortable with your method and your customers like your work don't be intimidated by those that you read on this site.
You indicate that a dry preserved skin will never be eaten by dermestid beetles. That statement is absolutely false. Dermestids will even attack untreated parts of bird skins that are preserved with arsenic. They also will attack dry preserved areas of skins that are incapable of being treated properly - for example around the hooves and eating the actuals horn or hoof itself. Moths also attack dry preserved bird skins - even those dusted on the outside by borax.
We have discussed dry preserve vs. tanning for years now, and I am open to using both methods, but both methods can have damage by dermestids and moths. The other aspect to deal with is of course shrinkage. In a perfect environment, a dry preserved hide can be fine - steady humidity and temperature within specified ranges. Unfortunately very few places have this situation outside of Art Galleries and very large Natural History Collections. You will of course counter that you must use the right adhesive. My rebuff will be to ask you what happens to your super-adhesive after 30 years?
I get many DP deer head mounts in for refurbishing that have cracks around eyes, nose and other places. The seams also buckle a lot and often pull apart. I've also seen some tanned mounts that have cracks. I most cases it's due to miss treatment or improper tanning methods. In my opinoin, a properly prepared and tanned cape will make a much longer lasting and more apealing mount than one done with DP. Just my opinion. I'll always tan my capes and oil them liberially.
I've seen DP heads eaten from the inside out by bugs, the inside of the skin looked like an ant farm between two pieces of glass. There were bug tunnels and furrows all over. Mostly they just tear themselves apart by shrinking and swelling with the change of humidity from season to season. In the summer we can be 90 degrees with 90+% humidity, then six months later we're -30 degrees and the humidity is 10%. It takes about four years of that for a deer head to explode. The Epo-Grip epoxy hide paste would probably help that problem, but I don't know anyone using it with the DP(except George).
Thirty years ago, when I first learned to do heads, all we used was DP. Heads came back on a VERY regular basis for "crack repair". My boss would always tell the customers, "your the only one who's ever had a problem". The only thing he left out was, "today"!
I also keep 30-40 pounds of DP in the studio for birds, reptiles, skinning, and other applications. I won't EVER use it to prepare a mammal hide, as I think the results are inferior to a tanned hide.
I used to use DP on everything when I first started out (16 years ago), and looking back, I am sure my work would have been better had I started with a tanned hide. But, like many of you, I wanted a quick method of prepping a hide so I could get on with the fun of mounting the critter. The longevity of the mounts I did back then probably suffered because of it.
If you will learn how to tan a hide, you can be ready to mount it in 4-5 days after you salt it if you don't want to send it to the tannery. That should be plenty quick for most of us.
If not, it's easy enough to just ask your client which method he or she prefers that you use on their once-in-a-lifetime trophy.
Bob Mead
this conversation reminds me of when "religous" folks want to take an obvious sin, twist things to make it fit their belief/desire or lifestyle. If you want to use DP go ahead, but please quit trying to make everyone accept it as an equal to tanning, some of us know better and chemistry proves it.
DaveT
And you're right. It is EXACTLY like religion. Your proof and my proof aren't always the same. AND I have to agree with PA on that remark about dermistids though I've never had them attack my birds. It's the mice I fear most with those guys (not in MY house, but I do a lot of work for the state who keep their mounts in old musky buildings where mice have field days with the mounts on occasion). And as I said, I no longer use it on the big game species, but it will be a very cold day in a very hot place when I ever tan a squirrel. Too old and hard headed to change now.
that doesn't equate to right though.
Young and dumb rhyme better.
are george and bill only,use what works for you. I enjoy each forum they are at the least imformative. These guys are more than likely descent people, however it appears to me that you can almost feel the lack of respect these fellows have for folks that do things different such as DP. Im sure these fellows have paid there just dues and I respect all opinions, but I tend to read less and less from those who blow their own horns and put themselves on pedistals NO PUNT INTENDED. have a nice day