Deer lips

Submitted by Pam on 4/3/05 at 9:30 AM. ( )

I've only did a few deer mounts and I am wondering what do you use for the deer lips AFTER you tuck them in ? I've seen mounts that look like they use some kind of sealer or glue between BOTH lips on the outside of the mount. There is no gap between them but a thin line of glue or something. I use hide paste and tuck my deer lips in but I never used any sealer between the two lips. Is it better to put a sealer between the two lips or leave them alone for them to dry as is?

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trust me

This response submitted by paul on 4/3/05 at 9:52 AM. ( )

do not use other peoples work for reference! you will never see any sealer or glue btween the lips of a live deer! a properly preped lip and lip slot along with a good adhesive is all you need. good reference is a MUST! think of this as artwork, trying to recreate to the closest what a live animal looks like, dont try an recreate anothers work, you may be duplicating their mistakes. enjoy


This response submitted by George on 4/3/05 at 9:52 AM. ( )

The only portion of the lip you should ever see on a deer is right in the front. It's more or less the lip line between the 2 black hair lines of the lower jaw where you can see the lip. Otherwise, the lip hairs should be touching and you should never see this area behind that point. Too often, beginners rout or cut too large a lip slot and as the hide dries, the lip line appears. Then to cover it up, they make the line you speak of. On a live deer, the bottom lip is actually up inside the mouth opening in unseen. When you mount a deer, yours should be as well.

great answer george thanks

This response submitted by stacey on 4/3/05 at 10:11 AM. ( )

I do not post on here often, but do ask questions from time to time. You always have some of the best responses. Straight forward and to the point

On live deer sometimes that front lip...

This response submitted by Craig on 4/3/05 at 10:23 AM. ( )

doesn't show depending on the deer's attitude. I think it is the "industries standard" to show the bottom lip on most mounts, lol.

I agree with Paul...don't use other people's mounts as reference as they may be doing it incorrectly.


This response submitted by Ernie on 4/3/05 at 10:52 AM. ( )

Best advice is to use reference.
I normally follow what George says and agree with the above with the exception that this is all you should ever see. On a basic mount with basic expression it is fine.
I have reference pictures where you can see more lip than just the front also have some where you can actually see the front teeth just a pinch. Nose flared open, nose relaxed and looks very closed. The brow's move and can be different depending on the rotation and or attitude. etc....Reference Reference and more reference. Is the key.
The lower lip does close and sits behind the upper lip. And there should be a seperation between the lower and upper lip. Hope This Helps! Ernie


This response submitted by paul on 4/3/05 at 11:17 AM. ( )

dont take it personal but ill debate that answere till my dying day! heck just look at the top of page 10 in your Breakthrough whitetail manual! i have tons of photo reference and live deer to study i dont feel the industry standard is the only way to mount! i would suggest to use your creativity as long as your creating something correct! go beyond what the guy down the road is doing! craig is right in what he states, any portion of that lip can be showing, from all to none depending on it expression. i cant express enough to a beginner to study as much reference as you can get your hands on. i think its safe to say the industry standard isnt whats winning the shows anymore and in my shop dosnt pay near as good as something unique. now pam thin that lip skin real good, make a thin lip slot, use some good hide paste tuck plenty of skin and you wont need to worry about some filler type material to make good correct lip lines

Thanks for all your input !

This response submitted by Pam on 4/3/05 at 11:22 AM. ( )

What you've been telling me, I've been doing. I did think it was a little ODD to see a thin line of sealer between the lips and when I complete my deer mouth both the bottom and lower lips in the front are nice and tight without any gaps but I thought in time they would seperate and look crumy and thought maybe thats why the guy put a tiny line of sealer in and painted over it. I'ts VERY true indeed that REAL deer do not have them sealed together! You're all on the money by saying: MAKE THE DEER LOOK REAL ! Thanks again from a Newbe and I could'nt do deer mounts without this forum and the fantastic INPUT from everyone! Ps It's really hard to not look at someone elses deer mount and think.... can I in anyway better my deer mounts by seeing other peoples work?

I don't mind debate. In fact I relish it.

This response submitted by George on 4/3/05 at 2:29 PM. ( )

But whether you argue to your dying day, I know what the "standard" is and I know that most exposed lips on commercial mannikins come from bad habits versus deer posture. If you WANT that lip exposed, you have to modify the form. I've seen deer have whole apples in their mouths and the picture of that second in time is almost grotesque, BUT we're talking about standard deer mounts here. Anyone can find EXCEPTIONS, but I challenge any of you to find 10 pictures of a standing relaxed whitetail where you can see any lip exposure along the sides. I promise, you'll be looking for quite some time. Now as far as the front lip, it IS exposed always even on live deer. That's physiology. Deer have no upper front teeth and depend on tearing forage off by pressing the lower teeth up against the palate pad in top front. To do this, the front bottom lip has to be free from the bottom teeth. That's why ungulates have papilla to secure the food and push it to the back of the throat for swallowing.


This response submitted by Jim on 4/3/05 at 4:43 PM. ( )

George I hope you're rich and happy, anyone with the knowledge you have has earned it and deserves it. Thanks for sharing it!


This response submitted by paul on 4/3/05 at 6:35 PM. ( )

we were talking front lip, and its not always exposed! when my deer in the pen are alert or focusing on some unknown sound or object that bottom lip can be invisable, hence when someone wants a mount with the ears forward and an alert expression i tend to expose very little to no bottom front lip. i wish my scanner were working george id send you a pic. anyway your scientific explanation on the physiology of the deers mouth is excellent

this site

This response submitted by todd on 4/3/05 at 9:40 PM. ( )

is better than an episode of jerry springer! man this is great!

Paul, you're selling me apples and I want oranges

This response submitted by George on 4/3/05 at 10:26 PM. ( )

I admitted to exceptions, but if you'd read what I said, I noted that I was speaking of a "standing relaxed whitetail and I can tell you for a fact, because you can't see it doesn't mean he's sucked that bottom lip in like a little kid pouting. It's just pressed up against the palate tighter. Look closer.

hate to say it...

This response submitted by Drew on 4/4/05 at 12:28 AM. ( )

When doing finish work, I use epoxy putty and cram it up between the lower lip and the upper pad if there is any gap at all after drying. i use a dental pick and cram it up there. I don't fill it all the way and leave a crease, but I think it helps to make sure that the lower lip never pulls free after years of drying especially out west.

dont cut too deep

This response submitted by paul e on 4/4/05 at 1:18 PM. ( )

dont cut the slot too deep in the form especially in the front
the form will weaken and pull out a little when drying
also those lip slot dremmals tools never gave me what i was looking
ive tried different things over the years
i settled on a pc of hacksaw blade broken with some all game made
to fit my hand
a lip tucking tool works for me also

to clean off deer eyes AFTER airbrushing....Cotton swabs?

This response submitted by Pam on 4/4/05 at 2:10 PM. ( )

Hey Guys and Gals....Just a quick question on the best way to clean off the eye after painting. Right now I use a cotton swab with paint thinner on But it's hard to get in the corners of the eye and sometimes the cotton strands from the Q-tips get on the lashes. Any suggestions on something else to use thats easier and gets ALL the overspray of paint off. When I use my flashlight to make sure it's clean there always is paint in the very corners. I do use a flat brush also but it's the drying and rubbing off the glass to make it CYSTAL CLEAR that I'm looking for and not getting the paint off..that I freshly painted from around the eyes.

hey george and pam

This response submitted by paul on 4/5/05 at 6:03 PM. ( )

i think we agree that different attitudes deserve, sometimes different mounting techniques, anyway i was just trying to get the point across good reference is a must, especially for one whos just beginning or one who dosnt mount a lot of a specific specie, believe me when i tell you this, ive mounted many a whitetail in my day, and to this day when i sculpt out a nostril i have a cast in my left hand! and be creative! if you want to get paid good money for your work, offer any pose or attitude your customer wants, learn the proper eye set, musculature around the brows facial muscles, etc. etc. and pam before i paint my eyes i clean any residue from the hide paste clay work etc off the eye, i then coat the eye with eye protect with a fine artists brush, then paint. when done you just peel the stuff off and clean with windex and your done. hey george the last words yours my man!

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