white larva found in deer

Submitted by Dan on 12/15/05 at 11:11 PM. ( ) 65.141.141.38

caped out a deer I shot and were I cut his neck off put head and in a bag brought home proceeded too cape rolled the hide inside out and found these larva around beging of the windpipe and attached muscle surrounding that totalof seven ranging from half inch to as big as three quarters of a inch they are semi flat and have a texture of a bee moth but twice to three times the size is this a bott fly the weather here has never been above freezing since I killed the deer.

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Bot fly larva

This response submitted by Bill Haynes on 12/15/05 at 11:16 PM. ( ) 72.15.90.234

Bot flies lay eggs in the hair, deer lick the hair and ingest the
eggs which hatch.They don't seem to bother the deer. I have seen
as many as a dozen in the nostrils of deer.
This is about the same thing as "wolves" in squirrels and rabbits.


lets see

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 12/15/05 at 11:28 PM. ( ) 67.138.15.126

You must be new to our forums, as this is a common question. The larvae you saw are meningeal worms, or brain worm. They are introduced to deer through snails and slugs, which carry the larvae. Deer are the natural host, and it causes them no harm. In moose, for example, the worm goes on into the brain. In captive herds we treat our deer with Ivermectin for strongyles. The meningeal worms are paralaphostrongylus tenius (p.tenius). Others say the worms you saw were lung worm, warbles, etc. I disagree. Its my thinking that these worms migrate from the sinus areas once the deer dies, and thats how you see them.


Bill Yox

This response submitted by paul k on 12/16/05 at 12:19 AM. ( ) 68.83.60.41

You know worms! A curious question. Are your captive deer also susceptible to other types of worms and parasites, say strongyloides , ascarids, bots, pin worms,lung worms etc. And do you utilize a regular de-worming schedule, that would effectively kill these parasite's, at the most opportune time for an infestation? Or do you use a supplement(de-wormer) in their daily diet make up that will rid them of these parasite's ?


Im not familiar with all the names you listed...

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 12/16/05 at 12:57 AM. ( ) 67.138.15.126

But like I mentioned in my post, I use Ivermectin to control the parasites. I do it every spring and fall, no matter what, as well as anytime I feel there might be reason to repeat. See, many knowledgable people claim that its not good to treat deer that often, as they feel it builds up a resistance. I dont agree with that thinking. Deer live for an average of 6 or 7 years in captivity. Theyre not building serious immunities and resistance in that time. Deer in captivity live on ground thats always supporting deer, though. That concentration is why I worm these animals so often. I rotate pens as much as I can too, to give a pen a "rest". Some of the daily supplement-type wormers might do more harm than good, as I see it. Too much treatment may also kill beneficial parasites, for example, those that feed on and break down fecal material in the pen. thats why I dont add garlic to the feed. But, in areas where EHD is such a threat, this is almost the lesser of two evils. After a good hard freeze up here, we can put away the meds...till April!


oh one other thing...

This response submitted by Bill yox on 12/16/05 at 1:17 AM. ( ) 67.138.15.126

You dont treat them when theres an infestation. The resulting die-off could kill the host, believe it or not. Also, you back up treatment 28 days later to catch the emerging larvae from eggs already there.


very interesting

This response submitted by paul k on 12/16/05 at 7:05 AM. ( ) 68.83.60.41

I imagine that treatment during a full blown infestation could possibly block the deers delicate digestive sytem or intestinal tract possibly causing death,so the idea would be to treat in the pre-emerge stage. One more question if you dont mind. Is each individual animal treated orally, say with prescribed amount of medication in a syringe or is the medication mixed with their food?
thanks.


Good reading

This response submitted by Bill Haynes on 12/16/05 at 8:27 AM. ( ) 72.15.90.234

Copy and paste

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12150_12220-26640--,00.html


Paul,

This response submitted by Glen Conley on 12/16/05 at 9:17 AM. ( g.conley@verizon.net ) 70.104.127.215

from the standpoint of intestinal blockage due to worming, that's going to depend upon more than one factor. Genus of worms and the type of wormer would be the first things to consider, but what could constitute a greater threat as far as blockage would be in the circulatory system.

I was told years ago that Ivermectin had been pulled off the market as an EQUINE pour-on. It seems that there are areas of our northwest that horses may commonly be infected with a microfilaria that lives in the circulation system. As a pour-on, I was told that the Ivermec did kill the microfilaria and that they would clog up in the blood vessels. Bear in mind blood vessels can and do "service" all parts of the body.

I am not sure if all species of strongyles do a migration through the circulatory system while in the larval stage or not, but I'm thinking that strongylus vulgaris definitely does that, and the numbers represented can be great. Adult vulgaris is pretty small, and can be easily passed when the animal is wormed orally.

Ivermectin creates paralysis in a worm first, it doesn't kill right away. The rate of paralysis of worms contained in a system seems to be spread over a number of hours, where there will be a number of worms being passed spread over a number of hours. Different genus and species will be more suseptible than others, like bots being the first to go, followed by strongyles towards the end of the time frame.

Wormers that kill quickly have been known to cause intestinal blockages if the animal was heavily parasitized, but this tends to be more involved with the larger ascarids and pins. The bodies of these worms can also start to decompose in the intestines before they are voided, which in turn can create more disturbances.


More good reading

This response submitted by Bill on 12/16/05 at 9:46 AM. ( ) 72.15.90.234

From the North Carolina Wildlife Resources dept.

"Animal Abnormalities/Illness


When dressing/butchering a deer that I harvested, I found several "grubby-looking) larvae in the deer's chest cavity and/or coming out of the deer's nostrils. What are these, and do they make the meat unsafe to eat?


bot fly larvae
What you are likely observing are bot fly larvae (genus Cephenemyia). These larvae are very common in white-tailed deer. The larvae originate from the deer's sinus cavity, nasal passages and/or pouches in the throat region. When a deer's body cools down, these larvae sometimes migrate into the throat region. The larvae then typically migrate down the throat and into the open body cavity of a field-dressed deer. It is here that unsuspecting hunters often find the larvae. The larvae are sometimes found in the mouth or nasal region of the deer. Hunters who wait several hours before field dressing and/or butchering the carcass are more likely to find the larvae due to the time it takes for the carcass to cool down and the larvae to migrate out of the sinus, nasal and/or throat region(s)."


yep, Paul

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 12/16/05 at 11:23 AM. ( ) 67.138.9.184

Like Glen was saying, theres plenty of parasites, and most treatments get the majority of them. you could stress animals through the lungs, heart, and vessels. Certain schedules for certain areas are usually suggested when worming. I treat the herd, as well as individually. Here in NY we have to physically handle the deer at least once a year, state enforced, so we inject each deer then, and treat as a group most other times. We use injectables, pour-ons, and also top dress the feed.

The description Bill posted seems very likely too. Im not as familiar with the name bot, as I think it gets confused with another type of fly. Of course, that also could well be MY confusion! Either way, theres the mystery solved again this year as to what those worms are!


Thanks Bill & Glenn for the good read

This response submitted by paul k on 12/16/05 at 3:15 PM. ( ) 68.83.60.41

My curiosity stems from owning several quarter horses, Just wandering about the similarities between a cervid and an equine de-worming regimen. Every year I get a few deer in that seem to have these larva's in or coming out of the nasal passages. As disgusting as they might seem to some, I just pass them off as one of the more uncommon sights in the chain of life, Im sure they do serve a good purpose for some higher creature in the food chain. The full cycle sure is interesting as to the next generation of parasites.


white larva found in deer

This response submitted by Dan on 12/16/05 at 10:38 PM. ( ) 65.141.142.53

thanks for that good history on parasites-worms I haved butchered close to one hundred deer and that was a first because I cut up all the meat except those hind quarters and never seen anything until I went to cape him out so that is good too eat? because it looked good someone let me know. Dan D.


of course

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 12/16/05 at 10:58 PM. ( ) 67.138.12.177

The written material pretty much says all deer carry this. Unless you meant eating the grubs themselves, I wouldnt, lol.

Paul, why do people "wander" about stuff? I "wander" what wonder means? Dont get mad, Im just jerking you, I see that all the time in these forums.


Ivomec

This response submitted by Jonathan on 12/16/05 at 11:18 PM. ( ) 66.32.75.115

Our deers are treated with Ivomec ,just as cattle are, you do have to be accurate with the dosage, but it even kills flees and ticks and all heart and stomach parasites.


Bill Yox

This response submitted by Tenbears on 12/18/05 at 7:58 PM. ( ) 152.163.100.133

I do Believe That when people state not use the same wormer too often because a resistance to it can be developed. They are not referring to the host. But the parasite. Any parasite that survives the initial dose of the active ingredient. In this case. 1.87% ivermectin. develops a resistance. this resistance can be passed on to subsequent generations. A resistant parasite that receives subsequent doses of the active ingredient will then become more resistant until it's resistance is absolute. Always administering adequate dosages to eradicate the parasite. Change workers that utilize different active ingredients and use them on a rotating basis. this will insure resistance is not developed. Ivermectin need only be used in the fall and early winter. The life cycle of the bot fly you are referring to. dictates the larva winter over in the digestive tract. They are shed in the spring. where they enter the ground. Medimorphize. and emerge as adult flys. By using amplicide. or another wormer in the spring. You can avoid the possibility of resistance.


is the meat safe to eat or not?

This response submitted by hugo padilla on 12/22/05 at 7:00 PM. ( ) 24.26.217.139

there is no mention if the meat is safe to consume.Is there any extra precautions one should take if the venisn is edible?


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