my apologies

Submitted by jt on 12/27/05 at 2:17 PM. ( )

to nip this thing in the bud i'm going to come out and apologize. my intentions were not to be as condescending as i apparently ended up being. the thing that interests me most about this site is the suggestions and different ways of doing things. i do take some offense to the cracks about being lazy and asking for help because i haven't. you don't see my name popping up with questions on how to do things. i spent thousands of dollars to take classes and on videos. i've put my time in, maybe not in years, but i have in effort and in classes. i've only been on this site for about the past 6 months or so and maybe am not all too familiar with everyone who has been on this site for years. I apologize in the sense that i'm not trying to degrade anyone. i'm only trying to suggest that some people need not to be rude about things. if you don't want to answer a question becaue you've addressed it too many times before then don't respond. if you want to direct someone to the archives simply tell the person to check the archives. there's no need to be degrading in your answer when telling someone to check the archives. i'm actually impressed to an extent in how far some people on here go to help others. in my neck of the woods taxidermy is such a competition that its very unlikely you would get another taxidermist to share a secret. i'm not in this business to steal all the work. i don't degrade the competition. i don't need the extra business. i don't have enough freezer room the way it is. so take care, happy new years and may we find a little more peace from here on out.

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This response submitted by mike on 12/27/05 at 3:30 PM. ( )

paragraphs are a terrible thing to waste...........


This response submitted by Bill Yox on 12/27/05 at 5:49 PM. ( )

I think youll find that most in here would say youre just fine, dont worry too much about it. We all get a good day in, as well as a bad one, so dont sweat it. Just join the club!

Yeah jt

This response submitted by Joey Arender on 12/27/05 at 6:25 PM. ( )

Its like Bill said. I do it all the time, don't sweat it. I am not anymore. I basically didn't use a computer much until I got hooked on this site and I have a hard time trying to type what I mean. Heck I even have a hard time trying to speak what i want to say sometimes.LOL

Good Post JT

This response submitted by Paul I on 12/27/05 at 6:52 PM. ( )

That was good on your part and if you read the archives George is getting nicer with time.LOL Bill is also one of the best who takes time to help others and he has been picked on also.Readers like myself defend these guys because we know what they have done for people.PS they dont charge also.

It is hard without a hard....

This response submitted by Randy Martin on 12/27/05 at 6:52 PM. ( )

fist to moderate any forum. I belong to a few antique and shooting forums. Flames or Flame baiting are just not tolerated. These guys set a great example and tolerate no crap and NO RUDENESS! These forums are supposed to be helpful and welcome new people and questions no matter how many times the question is asked. There is a right way and a wrong way I think everyone will agree. We are all GUESTS on this forum. It is ashamed that drunken adolescent outburst are tolerated here. I think honestly that more people WOULD post here if they didn't feel they were going to be blasted with stupidity. I guess it won't be too long before everyone has a camera hooked to their computer then face to face folks might show a little more respect. The old cliche' that "Only the good die young" then I guess "Pricks will live forever"! So we all should make it past 100 anyway. I know we have at least all added another 10 years to our lives. PEACE OUT jt! Everything is Cool here!

jt, Randy, when you're already in a hole, stop shoveling

This response submitted by George on 12/27/05 at 7:48 PM. ( )

jt, first off, let me just ask YOU a question. Pretend you're in a "classroom" with a worldwide audience (not a big stretch here on this forum) and just so that everyone is on a level field, you set up a recorder that has every subject you've discussed indexed alphabetically, phonetically, and subjectively. Above the class room door, you put a huge sign that says " Newcomers, if you have any gnawing questions, please check our files first". Then you open the door and there, above the blackboard is a large sign that says "If you have a gnawing question, please check our files before you ask." And then a student comes in and asks you a question that you KNOW has been answered dozens if not hundreds of times. You tell this person that the answer is in the file and he should look there first. Instead of looking, this person then tells you that in the time you took to tell him this, you could have just told him. Now what's YOUR reaction going to be towards this person. And remember, when you've finally got this guy educated, there's a line behind him coming through that door.

Some people, and YOU seem to be one of them immediately take offense when I or anyone else tells you, "Look in the file before you ask". There's no way of saying it where your tender sensibilities won't be offended. Admit it. So no matter how you gloss it over, it still comes out as someone "slammed" you. You still insist on "if you can't act nice to me, just don't answer me". Did you ever consider that YOUR question is now stored in that file I told you to look in first? And it's there forever, so you've taken up storage space by a redundant question. I never called you a dumbass, regardless of how I felt. I simply told you to check the archives and suddenly that's an affront to you. I don't see you as apologizing for anything above, not that it was necessary, but I do see you rationalizing as to why what you said had some validity.

Now you Randy. Twice you've made posts that I sensed subliminal message intent. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt as a peacekeeper. Personally, I prefer a peacemaker, but I did take a personal exception to the comment about "drunken adolescent outburst are tolerated here". I don't know if you intended it for me, but since jt's first post was directed PERSONALLY at me, I can only ASSUME. I have enough Cherokee blood in me to be intolerant of alcohol. I have enough brains to avoid anything that might make me "drunk" and at 60, adolescense might be an adjective you use, but if you didn't intend to insult me, you should have found a better one. If other forums are so much better in their decorum than here, why not stay on them? Cecil has been on this kick for months trying to poke a stick in Ken Edward's eyes for not being heavier handed in censorship. If you had any IDEA of the number of world class taxidermists who no long contribute because of the redundancies commited here, you'd cringe. Bill Yox and I have been here since the beginning and Bill can name a few dozen of them who were here intially, but left. We were just too bullheaded and Bill should be charging many of you as he does his students for the answers he gives. Instead he gives you his knowledge. Personally, I grew up in the "closed shop" era and I dread to think of people being treated as I was. (AND NO!, I'm not addressing matter of fact, to the point, answers that I give). Every person who asks a question in that "BEGINNERS" category is carefully screened and pampered by me before I reply. Still many just barge into a category and ask a question, and there, I find them fair game. That's 30 years of military and I certainly won't apologize for that either.


This response submitted by Randy Martin on 12/27/05 at 8:44 PM. ( )

No subliminal message here I know you are no adolescent. I am certain that you are old enough to know how to act in public. I am not sure though if you do realize how you come off most the time? Not all my comments were completely directed at you but hell fire George the older you get everything becomes redundant doesn't it? I don't mean this in a condescending way George but like I closed in my last post you sure won't die young! Peace out George!


This response submitted by Greg Waite on 12/27/05 at 9:30 PM. ( )

You have to understand there have been some great, and I mean great, taxidermists on here that got real tired of being "shot at" and they left. If I remember correctly Mr Yox was attacked sometime back.
You also have to understand that George showed the Egyptians how to taxidermy and mummify things.(Kidding George)
The thing I like about this forum, most of the times guys get on the high horse and b"tch. Tomorrow is a new day and things pass. Apologize and move on. Yes apologize does mean saying "sorry"

Good point Randy

This response submitted by George on 12/27/05 at 9:54 PM. ( )

I don't guess I ever thought of it quite like that, but you're absolutely right. You busted me fair and square on that one.

Hey George

This response submitted by Joey Arender on 12/27/05 at 9:58 PM. ( )

I've got a subliminal message for ya... You ready ... Its about Cally Morris looking for Bill Yox at Nationals this summer.. LMAO at Bill when I read that one.

New Ways

This response submitted by mopar on 12/27/05 at 10:20 PM. ( )

If everone just went to the orange button alot of new methods may never be found out, then the archives would stay old. I am not taking any sides in this but seems like this is always coming up and I have only been here 6 months. Jeff

mopar, that's correct in theory

This response submitted by George on 12/27/05 at 10:32 PM. ( )

But fundamentally flawed in practice. Did you notice that posting below about "sulphuric acid" (sic)? Well, H2SO4 will still pickle a hide and you CAN tan it using that, but we've improved on it slightly. How about "half casting" a fish? Brain tan? Using borax or DP on birds? Would you believe that you could pick up the first copy of J.W. Elwood's taxidermy manual and STILL mount a pigeon? And personally, I never refer anyone to the archives on information that's not current. Even I caught on when Cally Morris at the NTA 3 years ago extolled the virtues of NOT USING any adhesives on mounting turkeys and then 2 years ago stated that you should ALWAYS use caulk on turkeys. I even remember when Bill Yox endorsed acrlic whitetail eyes for the first time. None of which should offend anyone when they're told to check the archives. If they weren't such a wealth of information, do you really think Ken would maintain them?

Point well taken..

This response submitted by Randy Martin on 12/27/05 at 10:35 PM. ( )

Another angle on the search button that I find is the majority of the results on the subject is someone saying "hit the search button".


This response submitted by mopar on 12/27/05 at 11:04 PM. ( )

I am hooked on this site, I started taxidermy in 1975 and had been out of it for 15 years (burn out). I look here ever night after work and search for things. I have found so many new ways of doing things, but alot of the searches I do the dates are all fairly old and thats what I was going by. I still mount my fish with wood wool and just painted my first 2 fish with a airbrush. I found out about retarder in the search button and that was a great help. This site is the greatest tool I have seen in taxidermy and we need to keep it this way, hell I am to start taking things after the new year and going to try some of these no things LOL. Jeff

hmmm, where does this leave us?

This response submitted by Bill Yox on 12/27/05 at 11:25 PM. ( )

I still think we are a good bunch of guys. We might not always "get" each other, but we tend to grow on each other sooner or later. Yeah, Ive had my a$$ chased in here more than once. I didnt mind that so much as, it always seemed to be a guy who, the day previous, was asking ME for a favor. A day later hes biting, and doesnt know I know its him, etc. Haha, Ive left here and come back on many occasions, and my detractors (spelling?) love to point this out. But of course theyre limited in knowledge as to WHY I step aside. I have to, lest things got worse. Oh well, think of it this way. All these years later, and I STILL use those Eppeley eyes that George thinks I didnt like? hahaha!


This response submitted by George on 12/28/05 at 9:09 AM. ( )

I can imagine the time warp you must've been put in after leaving in 1975. You missed the true beginning of the Golden Age of Taxidermy. Probably more changed in this industry between 1980 and 2000 than had taken place in the millions of years prior to that.

And I know lots of posts in the archives DO state, "check the archives" and that's a sad commentary of what I tried to explain above. Those are the guys "in line" I was talking about. Just remember, however, today's discovery is still archived tomorrow. If you doubt it, just check out what happened when the primitive alum tan was "rediscovered". Just type in Krowtann and see what fell out of the woodwork over that.

catch 22

This response submitted by John Morley on 12/28/05 at 9:46 AM. ( )

30 years ago you couldn't ask a question. There were no archives, there was no internet. Heck, video's weren't even out (man I didn't think I was old but I sure am starting to talk it aren't I). I believe we all prefer the current state where everyone shares information.

I started out with J.W. Elwood's coarse. At 13 years old those manuals weren't as easy to follow as a video is today - not to mention the methods were a little antiquated and the time involved was immense, at 13 your attention span is lacking.

We live in a time of free flowing information. The younger folks today are more used to getting the information they need when they need it (I think the older generations have made it that way - they knew how hard it was for them and wanted to make it better for the future generations).

At 43 years old I feel I'm kind of in the middle. I get a little ticked at how someone can ask (re-ask) some of the most basic questions. The same basic question I had when reading those manuals 30 years ago... I think to myself - 'it isn't fair that they get the answers so easy' - do they know how hard it was for me to get these answers (do they know I had to walk 5 miles to school uphill both ways).... Then I think 'thank God they can get these answers so quickly' otherwise I'd still be putting all those brass brads in each deer head I did......

Its catch 22, the information is there for all to do their research but it is also soooo easy just to type in that question... I guess I find it easier to just breeze over those repeat questions and continue looking for what is new to me. (Another one of those English language things - why are new and knew pronounced the same?)


This response submitted by jt on 12/28/05 at 10:07 AM. ( )

just stop referring me to one of the ones in line or one of the ones asking the questions. that is what is bothering me the most now. your "check the archives" messages were never sent to me. i was referring to how you sound to others.

jt, I can't help you then I guess

This response submitted by George on 12/28/05 at 12:21 PM. ( )

You've got a terminal case of the ass over me and my reponses. I sensed your "apology" wasn't and now you verify it. Well, I guess you're left with two choices: Accept how I am or don't. More people should be concerned about how someone "sounds" for themselves and stop worrying about "others". That's what made "Political Correctness" such a farce. If the other dog hasn't bitten YOU yet, I don't understand why you're doing all the howling.

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