I know you some of you recommend these mannikins, but why? What makes them so much better than the leading suppliers like McKenzie, Mears, Hilton, etc.
I also have found that on many of McKenzie forms the face area is way to small for nothern deer. Why should I taxi all that skin, that is not natural. I can see a little looseness, but excess is caused by ill fitting forms. I realize that not every deer is the same, but some forms are ridiculous. The Joe Meder forms have a small nose and short lip line. The face is not wide enough either. I'm tired of cutting the lip line longer, splitting and placing wedges in the face to widen it. Widening the nose, and the bondo work and sanding. It's all a time wasting hassle. What deer are they molding these forms after?
I want northern deer forms. I don't have options of sending forms back and forth trying different ones. It seems very futile. How many hack taxidermists are out there buying any form and making the cape fit no matter what it ends up looking like because the average Joe isn't going to notice these things?
Give me some good and bad experiences with different companies.
Thanks
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Did you come from the days where you had to use the original skull and build around it, stuck on a 2"x4" for an armature? On the other hand, did you just happen to start taxidermy after the foam form was invented? You want it all to snap together like a model car kit. Rick Carter said in a seminar two weeks ago, Quote; if you see something wrong with the manikin, fix it! Un-quote. He said to use a couture gauge and get things right.
Every deer in every State is as different as people are. Try to go and buy size 35" waist jeans, or 37", they do not make them. I have to ware what I can get. The same goes for the forms. So you say using a form that is not perfect or exact in size of the deer you are working on, from the supplier makes you a hack? That's what you said. I have never heard a complaint from a customer that I put their northern deer cape on a southern form. Not one. I guess we need to measure the deer now before we shoot them.
We've fought this one for years and still nothing of substance. There are BIG southern deer and there are small northern deer. Get over it. To even imply that Joe Meder doesn't know anything about deer that live in the northern tier is just uneducated. If YOU like a form line that's fine. That's YOUR opinion but one not shared by most of us (I say most as if everyone bought YOUR choice of manikins, then they'd be nationally renowned. They're not.). Research thinks their "First Honest Whitetail" is the best and each supplier is to their own. If you're dogging up a manikin by splitting it's mouth farther than it's intended to show physiological features, that's you. Me? I'd tuck the back corner in the manikin corner, the front center in the front center, and guess what? The rest will fit in the spaces in between and if you use a good adhesive, no one will ever notice. Talking trash about other forms doesn't make your choice any better for those of us who don't use it or don't like it. And if it is SO good, what did you use before it came out?
I believe the Competitor's Choice mannikins were sculpted using measurements from Wisconsin deer. Pat Wagner, Brian Olson, and Mike Yeska are from different parts of the state. They collected measurements from all of the deer that came into their shops for several years and then used those measurements to sculpt the forms.
I haven't used an Eppley yet. I've used Mears and Meder and had no problems. I've noticed that the noses on the smaller McKenzie forms seem to be way too small for smaller Wisconsin deer.
Wrroisi,
I agree with George on this one. You are spending way too much time altering the mannikin to have a "better fit". Tucking here and there in the right spots hides everything, but yet I know exactly what your talking about. I too have found different companies have different fits. You have to ultimatley look at where the deer are from they are casting and sculpting. Let me explain more. Over the years I have mounted deer on every form some companies make. Some fit great some take a little more effort, but yet we want to take as much effort out of it as we can. For example I know Ben Mears and have had the privilage of spending time in his shop watching him mount deer. I used to buy most of my forms from Mears but I was finding the seemed to be small for our Illinois Deer. Ben listened to our comments and took a nice buck in Illinois. Took the buck back, casted, and sculpted a northern series from it. It's the "suo" series. Right now I love the from and have mounted several deer on it, including my own. Like George says, not all deer are the same and not all northern deer are big. But if you have a "heavy" deer this from is wondeful and I highly recommend. Like George says you can't take away from guys like Joe Meador, or Joe Coombs. They didn't make it in the business for being idiots! Anyway try them all and find what you like for the deer you are mounting. If your from the northern united states(sorry my caps quit working for some reason) then try Mears's "suo" series and see what you think. I think you be satisfied. I hope this helps and makes sense. I have had a few beverages tonight so I fell like rambling! lol!
Here in NC, the McKenzie form works well, but just a 2 hr drive south and you have to shorten the necks on the forms. I just finished one that had the narrowist (word?) head I've ever seen. I couldn't fit 2 fingers between the horns, had to modify the form. Find the forms that fit closest and modify acoordingly.
If the suppliers made the heads bigger, you folks that are complaining ,would then say they still don't know what their doing cause the forms are too big.It's quite apparent that a beginner posed this question,not knowing how to taxi the skin, and several more jumped on the wagon to take a ride downhill.I think you complainers ought to call Joe Meder and tell him to stop sculpting those "southern" deer.
I'm no damn beginner for all you experts that seem to have all the answers. Maybe if you read the question you would have answered it properly. My main question was about Competitors Choice mannikins. Obviously I had one person answer it correctly. I purchased a Canadian whitetail cape with the exact measurements and purchased a Joe Meder series profile pedestal form from McKenzie, and it fit like crap. The cape was swimming in it, especially in the face and lip line. McKenzie said many people have notice the short lip line and small nose and thin face, so I don't care what the rest of you think about his forms. I guess you think because the measurements are the same the rest of the features are good too. You never seen forms with the same measurements that are to different sizes. If you want to comment on the question thats fine, but don't tell me I don't know what I'm doing. Are you an award winning taxidermist, I can't see how you win awards by taxiing the hell out of the cape to make it work good. Isn't the whole purpose of these mannikins is to have less time involved.
I am from WI so they fit our deer well. Anytime I can get a hide to fit a form right out of the box is less time spent altering. They are made from a 3 part mold giving them good detail, the necks seem to me to be longer than necks on the Meder forms with overall less swell. The shoulders fit better on the deer I mount than with either McKenzie or Meder. The lip line is longer than Meder forms. Their semi-uprights and semi-sneaks are not offset shoulder forms, Meder semi-sneaks are offset. I use Meder sneaks, as they work the best for me and C.Choice does not offer a sneak. I have ordered manikins from the other suppliers, only to get them in and the measurements are not what was stated in the catalog. I was very dissappointed in the McKenzie wall pedestal form with its very narrow face, I also noticed it in their new sneak and heard from a fellow taxidermists that the head-up also has the narrow face and nose. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure many people get great looking mounts out of these other forms, but this is why I prefer what I prefer. My only complaint with C.C. maninkins is that in some cases their sizes are limited. I have never used an Eppley form.
that came from the same 30 acres of woods that were of the same age, same neck and e-n measurements and weight and had two totally different lenght necks. Same exact forms were ordered i had one that fit perfectly into the brisket area and one was real long. You have to make it work either by alteration or taxiing you never get a perfect fit all the time.
...I use Meder foms, as the fit most of out northern Minnesota bucks very well. When I have a deer that needs a longer neck I usually go to the Jody Green forms from Van Dykes, the only drawback is their lack of variety in sizes and positions. AND the Green forms tend to be larger than their listed dimensions. Nice heavy(deep)faces though. I just picked up a Ben Mears form at a show and plan on trying it out, it looks like it will be OK, but I can't really say until the cape goes on it.
forms from McKenzie, Van Dykes, Meder, Matuska., nad have had food responses from all from my customers. I think it's personal preference, an as long as my customers are happy, that's all that matters to me. JMO
Bill