I've seach the archives and found conflicting answers. My partner and I are going to be doing a 1/2 body deer, head down, right turn. The customer wants it to look like he is looking around a tree at a bear that we did for him. The form is more of a fighting stance though. Will the eyes be level w/ the ground or more follow the bottom jaw line?
Thanks for anyone that helps
Return to Deer Taxidermy Category Menu
The pupils follow the head as they go up but as the head drops down below level they stay level to the ground. At least thats what i have always been told. But hopefully bill or someone eles who knows more will chime in. I am also sure if you use the orange button it will tell you as well
He may bump into a computer, but he is out of town teaching class, he will get back at the end of the week( when he has no class) :-)
sally forth to yon barn yard and study the pupil angles of the domestic goat to gain truth and knowledge.
I would add to that, the position of the eye brows allowing for focus of the eyes on the bear will be of importance.
Hard to explain with out photos and lots of writing. I'll keep it short. A lot depends on form position and what you are trying to achieve. The deer will have eyes rotated to the right if the head isn't facing the bear. The eyes will be level with the ground most of the time, looking at the surounding area. The pupils will rotate to focus on an object and may not be level with the ground. It all depends on the angle of the head and how low it is positioned. If it is a fighting defensive pose, the top of the head will be tipped toward the other animal (Totally different look from a feeding deer) The eyes will have a bugged out look for an agressive position. The eye brows are pulled way up toward the top of the head because the deer is looking past his forehead and antlers and watching the threat. Being able to see both the threat and his antlers to protect himself. In order to see, the brows have to be pulled way up so deer can see past the top of his head. Other wise the eye brow would block his view. When the brows are pulled up like that it also exposes more of the eye ball. The eye does also buldge slightly in this pose. It can be a very complicated position and look to pull off. You need a lot of reference. I've done it in competition before and Joe Meder said I nailed the look. It helps to have your own pissed off agressive deer in the fall to study through the fence at one to two feet away. Something a photo won't show you. It still scares the crap out me when they hit the fence with thier antlers and you're that close. Also remember in an agressive pose those ears are pinned back flat to the neck. The hair also stands up so they look bigger than they are.
I agree with what all has been said here, including the class thing from Mr T, lol. Yep, head low, pupils parallel to the ground, as well as redirected to focus, as its still looking at something low, compaitively speaking. Dean is right on about adjusting the brow for this pose. Is this Dean U., by any chance? If so, I KNOW that mount would be correct...
Thanks to all for the responces. Dean do you have pictures that you could email me?
Bill, I don't know if you remember me from MN show. Dean O'Brien is the name, I didn't do a deer when you judged MN. I think I may have had the leopard in the tree or wildebeest that year and missed the other year. I have mainly been competing with African animals lately. Especially the last two world shows. Wildebeest and sable. Took a break from deer for a couple years. Maybe for Reno I'll do a deer again.
Eric let me know what you want and I'll see what I have stored. I can tak some if you are looking for somethin in particular. I can't piss my buck off right now,(to mellow) he just wants to sniff, lick and beg for treats . I don't know if I took any agressive photos. In the fall I just stand there and watch him and that pisses him off even more. I may have some photos of him shedding velvet. That will show the high brow and eye rotation when he is working the tree. Mainly close up eye, ears, nose, and mouth reference
Check your e-mail. Maybe with a photo in hand, that could help get everyone on a common thread.
I took a photo program to this particular photo and lightened the exposure to the point the eyes were just about the only thing that were not white. (Pupils show up really well when this is done, unless the deer has really dark irises, which this one does) The pupils just barely showed as far as angle, BUT they were rotated as much as nature allows, which is not a whole lot of degrees.
I imagine there is a university some where that has the amount of rotation in degrees that a deer eye is capable of moving.
The biggest piece of information in this photo, as far as eyes, is the amount of raising and shaping of the brows when the head is down, and the deer is looking forward. Dean, how close is this photo to what you were describing to Eric in your thread?
Eric, Glens photo of a feeding deer gives you some idea of the of movement on the brow. Like Glen said the eye can only rotate so far. That is why the eye brow skin moves so much, it is so the brow doesn't block the view of the pupil and the deer can be focused on what is in front of them when the head is down. In an agressive pose that can be taken to more extreme than that. The photo Glen has is a relaxed feeding deer. The eye brow can move more than that, exposing more of the eye. When they are really agressive and focused on something, the eye will strain and actually bulge out a little. When you set your eyes you can set them not quite as deep as normal. If done right, it will give you a look that pops. It gives you a totally different look than one with just the head down looking forward. I learned that eye anatomy tip from Joe Meder when I did an agressive buck at the word show 6-8 years ago. He said I pulled off the look. A good side view would help even more. From the side the eye lid shape will have a round look to it. It will also show a lot of white around the eyes , especially at the bottom of the eye. If it is rotated it will show white at the bottom as well as the front corner of one eye and the rear corner of the other, depending on which way it is rotated. Eric, Where are you at and when are you going to put this job together. I need a few days to look through my photos. I have little time this week, I am teaching a firearm safety class 4 hours a night all this week and 7 hours on Saturday. I'll try to get to them ASAP. In the mean time if you have any other questions let me know.